PWG

[BigBadMick]

It doesn't get a lot of attention here. What's the deal?

 

From very limited viewing, and hearing Shoe and Dylan mention it in various podcasts, I get the impression that its very highspot orientated, throughout the card, with little sense of progression as an entire show.

 

Any PWG fans here? Any standout matches/shows that you'd recommend for a newcomer?

[jpchicago23]

Last year's BOLA was tremendous. All three nights

[Grimmas]

Last year's BOLA was tremendous. All three nights

Two nights. Night 1 was one of the worst shows all year.

 

The problem I have with PWG is that the matches focus on popping the crowd with nearfalls. That is find in moderation, but when every match has all these huge kick outs it's too exhausting for me to watch. Love the Mike Bailey matches though.

[Goodear]

I do not watch PWG so I want to make it clear that I have about as little actual backing to this comment as can be. But just from watching the highlights, it strikes me as a very samey "everyone is doing flips!" which I find exhausting at this point in my life. Watching someone doing a shooting star something in three strait matches just makes me think that you have a bunch of people working hard but who don't have a bigger picture of card construction and roster diversity in mind.

[WingedEagle]

Try a couple shows, see if you like it. I don't think you can go wrong with any from the last couple years. If you dig one you should dig them all. I think they're great fun. Wouldn't want it to be the only wrestling I watch 365 days a year but its more than a fun part of the mix. That being said, they also put on some truly standout showcase spotfests if you dig it that can't be beat. Add a rabid crowd and its tough not to enjoy.

[Grimmas]

I wonder if anybody can watch a PWG in one sitting? Even the PWG fans?

[InYourCase]

PWG burnt me out. There's a period in that promotion's history from DDT4 2011 (March, I believe) through BOLA 2013 that is just unbelievable. Claudio, Hero, Generico, Steen, the Young Bucks, Super Smash Bros, Willie Mack, Tozawa, etc. - they all killed it. I still think BOLA 2013 is the best BOLA ever. Much better than 2014 and 2015.

 

The promotion lost its focus, in a way. The great thing about PWG for awhile was that everyone brought their own style to PWG. The Bucks were different than SSB who were different than RockNES Monsters who were different than Brian Cage and Willie Mack. Now, the "PWG style" is what everyone wrestles. I'm a fan of "excess" and excitement, but a lot of guys in PWG do too much. There's very few compelling singles matches in PWG right now. Everyone goes out there, does spots, and then leaves. There are guys that I love working for PWG right now, but besides Hero and Speedball, no one in that promotion interests me right now.

 

From a historical standpoint, Threemendous III (2012), Guerre Sans Frontières (2009), Steen Wolf (2011), Fear (2011), and BOLA Night 2 (2013) are probably their best shows ever.

[Laz]

InYourCase nailed it. That run was so perfect and varied that it's hard to not find something you like. It's still a spotty GOGOGO style, mind you, but less "moves that don't matter" and more "we hit fast forward."

 

Things started falling off when every match began having a thousand false finishes, and got worse when Steen, Generico, Hero, Callihan, and other prominent guys were signed up and away. I haven't caught up on much 2015, but it seems like many of the errors have been corrected. I'll be snagging up a few DVDs next pay day.

 

The key factor in enjoying PWG is that it's not a traditional product. There aren't storylines as much as there are broad character arcs, with the ascension up the roster maybe being the only true example of meritocracy in a US company these days. The more the fans react? The higher on the card you go.

 

It's a party. It's mostly exhibitions. It's fun. I can't watch it every day, or even on a weekly basis, but checking it out on its sporadic schedule is just fine.

[jpchicago23]

It might not be for everyone but if you like the style than its definitely a great promotion to follow. I'd rather watch PWG than pretty much any other promotion right now. And no Steven, that wasn't a type-o I put all three nights. One of the worst shows all year is your opinion but I don't see how it was that much worse than night 2 or 3.

[WingedEagle]

It might not be for everyone but if you like the style than its definitely a great promotion to follow. I'd rather watch PWG than pretty much any other promotion right now. And no Steven, that wasn't a type-o I put all three nights. One of the worst shows all year is your opinion but I don't see how it was that much worse than night 2 or 3.

 

Completely agree. If you dig PWG you should enjoy all of BOLA. If its not for you then none of it is very appealing. But the disparity is not night and day.

[Grimmas]

It might not be for everyone but if you like the style than its definitely a great promotion to follow. I'd rather watch PWG than pretty much any other promotion right now. And no Steven, that wasn't a type-o I put all three nights. One of the worst shows all year is your opinion but I don't see how it was that much worse than night 2 or 3.

Every match on night 1 had a reverse frankensteiner.

[InYourCase]

I wonder if anybody can watch a PWG in one sitting? Even the PWG fans?

Even when the shows are great, I typically take a break halfway through the DVD.

[BigBadMick]

Sounds like whole cards would wear me out. Any specific match recommendations?

[Goodear]

So not trying to be a dick about it, but here is the preview for PWG All Star Weekend 11 Night 1 that the company put up on their website.

 

It opens with a toy chainsaw attack... I have no further comment about that.

 

But the opener highlights contain a suplex on the outside of the ring to the apron, a standing corkscrew splash, a pop up powerbomb, a backflip into a tornado DDT and a pumphandle piledriver. The way the card is presented makes it seems like it is hours of more bomb throwing craziness with no breaks. I was tired by the end of the 6 minute hype video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_PMNezYNK4

[InYourCase]

To be fair, I thought the All Star Weekend shows looked better than anything PWG put out this past year. It seems like a small step in the right direction.

[Laz]

The toy chainsaw attack is actually a play on a common Kenny Omega spot. If you think it's hilarious and entertaining then you'll enjoy PWG. If you find it dumb or offensive to what good wrestling should be then you won't.

[Dylan Waco]

My thoughts on PWG are sort of in between WingedEagle and Case's. By far my biggest issue with them now is the emergence of a house style, rather than being a place where styles are blended in interesting ways (I think Evolve has filled the hole left their). That said some guys are really made for that setting, especially Mike Bailey who was having PWGish matches in Canada for years before he go their and has busted out as the best guy working that style on Earth (unless you count Dragon Lee and Kamaitachi). I haven't watched an entire PWG show uninterrupted in some time, but I think they are a promotion that is easy to love if you appreciate a certain aesthetic.

[Loss]

Trying to find that paragraph where Dave talked about PWG having so much variety where he compared Roderick Strong to Shawn Michaels and Chris Hero to Johnny Valentine, among other interesting comparisons. Anyone remember the issue?

[Luchaundead]

I wonder if anybody can watch a PWG in one sitting? Even the PWG fans?

 

I've gone to every PWG show for the past 4 years so I've watched all those show in one sitting obviously live is a different animal I only had an issue once where I actually left after Hero vs O'Reilly as I felt that match was so good that it could in no way be followed (I still consider it in my top 10 of all time matches) but, of course after was the much heralded guerrilla warfare Bucks vs WCTT. Now after that digression as a long time fan of PWG I see the real issue they have now is that for the first time in the companies history rather than booking what they want, when they want, because they want they are actually behind the trends and trying to keep up with what's "hot" and it's caused them to lose focus. PWG now is trying to be the "dream promotion" that it use to just be.

[WingedEagle]

I actually think their DVDs are quite easy to sit through. They skip the intros because of music copyright issues so it jumps from match to match. While the live shows are probably a blast due to the atmosphere and vibe (and beer), if I ever don't watch a show in full its because of time constraints rather than any issues with the product.

[Laz]

I typically take a break every few matches to do something else and recharge my batteries. I love PWG but I can attest to the GO GO GO feel and style wearing thin with certain guys (AR Fox and the RockNES Monsters especially).

 

Now after that digression as a long time fan of PWG I see the real issue they have now is that for the first time in the companies history rather than booking what they want, when they want, because they want they are actually behind the trends and trying to keep up with what's "hot" and it's caused them to lose focus. PWG now is trying to be the "dream promotion" that it use to just be.

Spot on, my friend. Part of it can be attributed to the WWE signings and ROH pulling contracted talent after Cole got hurt, this forcing heavier booking of talent that exemplify the ills of indy wrestling (like Fox), but it seems the last few shows have begun resolving the issue with the AAA/LU talent coming in and the return of Super Dragon, Chris Hero, and others.

[SomethingSavage]

I never really feel like the criticism that, "they don't run angles" is even remotely accurate. In fact, I think an argument could be made that their angles stand out BECAUSE they're used sparingly. They feel like they matter - and thus - they actually MEAN MORE due to that. If the majority of the matches are ran as exhibitions - with an overarching story of wins and losses to rise up the ranks, and that's it - then even the simplest of angles, used sparingly, can work up a reaction.

 

Since at least 2012 or 2013, PWG has actually executed "angles" better than just about anything ROH has done in years. And that's pretty incredible, considering that they really only hold 8 to 10 shows per year.

 

In the last few years alone, they've done a MUCH better job with El Generico's sendoff, Adam Cole's heel turn & subsequent run, Roddy Strong's heel turn and subsequent run, Kyle O'Reilly's ascension as a singles star, and yeah - even the mixed tag match with the Bucks against Candice & Joey was actually the payoff to an incredibly fun story they'd been telling for awhile.

 

They offer *some* variety here & there, but I'd be lying if I said there's an abundance of it. If the "go go go" tempo isn't really your thing, then it's probably not something you'd stick to watching. The style can be exhausting, especially when they cram a card with matches that aim for the same thing over & over again. It happens.

I will say this though - PWG is consistently FUN. I have casual friends & former roommates that I can't convince to catch a WWE show (outside of every year's Mania and RAW the night after), but I've had no problem on selling them on a few PWG DVDs (and Lucha Underground) in the past year. So they're clearly doing something right to catch people's attention. There's a buzz around 'em for good reason.

[Hobbes]

I'm a big PWG fan, in part because they only run ten shows a year. If they ran weekly, would it get desensitizing? Sure. But ten shows a year of bleeding edge spotfests I can enjoy. I don't think I've ever sat through a PWG DVD in one sitting, but I don't see that as a negative, just like how I don't see the fact that I would vomit if I ate a whole chocolate cake in one sitting as a negative of chocolate cake. I feel about the shows the same way I used to feel about those marathon IWA-MS shows: if I had to watch them live, I might not enjoy them as much, but I don't have to watch them live.

 

While the majority of PWG is focused on highspots, crowd interaction comedy, and hot nearfalls above all else, it's a narative a little overstated by some. In the last year PWG has booked Timothy Thatcher, Drew Gulak, Drew Galloway and other guys that don't fit the "American Dragon Gate" narrative. PWG also includes regulars like Roderick Strong, Chris Hero and Mike Bailey, who are workers that even a lot of people who aren't fans of PWG overall still enjoy. The majority of the PWG product still is go-go-go, but the overall vibe of the promotion ebbs and flows, and I feel at times in the last 6-8 months the overall product has started to move a tiny bit back to being more varied.

 

BOLA night 2 of 2015 in particular is a pretty varied card, and probably the show that prompted Dave to make that misguided comment about PWG being the most varied promotion on earth, as cards like that are a rarity for PWG, not the norm. That said, I feel pretty confident that most people will find at least one match to like from that show, between Hero/Thatcher, the Lucha Underground tag, Bailey/Galloway, and the hardcore brawl main event. All very different matches. Again, that kind of variety isn't the norm for PWG, but they're capable of it.

 

Oh, and I'd be remiss if I didn't plug The Beaver Boys vs. Andrew Everett/Trevor Lee match from last year's DDT4 show. I've talked about it here before, and the show as a whole was probably PWG's worst of the year, but I believe it's an incredibly underrated match that kind of bridges the gap between what people expect from PWG and what some feel PWG is missing. It still has a good pace and lots of highspots, but it has a great traditional tag structure, some nice little detail work, and a very good, almost perfectly consistent leg sell job from Andrew Everett. I don't know if it's worth buying the whole show for that one match, but if you can see it, watch it.

[MikeCampbell]

I've been watching PWG for a couple of years now. I started after hearing that they had done a couple of Generico/Claudio matches, since this was right around the time that Cesaro/Zayn was all the rage. I've some stuff that I absolutely hated (Loss and I both commented in the match discussion thread about how shitty the 2013 DDT4 final match was). But, I also saw more than enough fun and good, that I didn't want to completely write them off.

 

I think Savage was spot on with his comment about less being more with angles. The big angle last year was the re-emergence of the Mount Rushmore stable. But, when the seeds were planted at DDT4, with Strong attacking Candice and Joey, everyone assumed that it was just a vehicle to give Roddy someone to feud with over the title.

[Childs]

I don't think PWG has to be an all-or-nothing thing, as some have suggested. I get plenty annoyed with the overdone matches that last 10 minutes too long and the hyper self-conscious crowd, but I find myself drawn back to the promotion regardless. Bottom line is they book a lot of wrestlers I like, and those guys obviously get up to work in such a charged environment. So there's plenty to enjoy even if it's hard to sit through a whole show. I also like Excalibur on commentary for reasons I can't logically explain.