JerryvonKramer Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 A rare wrestling article from me about Roman Reigns (and Dory Funk Jr and Bob Backlund): http://placetobenation.com/why-roman-reigns-isnt-over-or-a-study-in-parallels-roman-reigns-bob-backlund-and-dory-funk-jr/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conker8 Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Off topic but Malenko was a huge heel in Florida. Also, Florida runs Puerto Rico in 69. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I'd say that this generally accomplishes what it sets out to do, even if it's lacking in a good deal of modern context/nuance and really doesn't offer much in the way of "well, here's what was really going on instead," which is the more interesting question by far. . My big question to Parv coming out of this would be when exactly was the last time Vince got behind anyone to the degree he's talking, especially someone presented on weekly TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 The interesting question left open here (and I think it's beyond the scope of the piece to answer) is - if Vince hasn't truly gotten behind Reigns, doesn't see him as the future - why is everything pointing to him main eventing Wrestlemania for the second year in a row? Is Vince using Reigns as a placeholder until he figures out his next move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Pretty much, seems like he's just biding his time until he finds his new ace. I'd be really really surprised if the WM main event is just HHH vs. Reigns. My big question to Parv coming out of this would be when exactly was the last time Vince got behind anyone to the degree he's talking, especially someone presented on weekly TV. Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Pretty much, seems like he's just biding his time until he finds his new ace. I'd be really really surprised if the WM main event is just HHH vs. Reigns. My big question to Parv coming out of this would be when exactly was the last time Vince got behind anyone to the degree he's talking, especially someone presented on weekly TV. Cena. Show your work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Much passive-aggression in you I sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 In all seriousness, I'd be especially curious for you to look at how Cena was booked around Wrestlemania 22. I wasn't watching then but I have to wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I reviewed Cena's first title reign a while back. Just saying. Long story short, they booked him like someone they didn't trust to hold up his own end of long singles matches. So he'd spend 90% of his matches selling and then hit an FU out of nowhere, which is counterproductive in its own way, but he also didn't have the rug pulled out from under him repeatedly the way Reigns has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I think Vince is booking Roman this way because it's basically the same way Daniel Bryan was booked. He's just taking that formula and applying it to Roman without realizing that the booking had very little to do with Bryan's popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I think they fucked Roman Reigns out of the gate when he won the Rumble. When it became obvious he was going to be the 2015 Rumble winner in like fall of 2014, fans started turning on him for the sole reason he wasn't Daniel Bryan. Christ when Rey Mysterio entered the 2014 Rumble at #30, he got booed for not being Daneil Bryan. The only way they could have gone back and unfucked it up was to have Daniel Bryan have one either the 2014 or the 2015 Rumble, or both. Reigns was really, really hot in 2013 and 2014, its just there was backlash because he wasn't the guy the people wanted in the main event. I also think the WWE has spent the past 20 years promoting itself and the people running the company as the heels. This isn't good for when you try to create a top new babyface because the fans will recognize that the company they have been booing for 20 years is trying to make some new guy a big deal, so the fans will just boo that guy because that is what we the fans have been trained to do. We've been trained to boo anybody the WWE puts support behind, which is incredibly counterintutive for the purpose of creating new babyfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I've never understood this "we've been trained" talking point. It implies that you watch something and some sort of "training" you can't control comes over you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Nice. Manchurian Candidate. But all TV influences us. Trains might not be the best verb. Like you watch a shitty sitcom, we laugh when the laugh track happens at some shitty joke. Why? I have no fucking idea, we just do. With wrestling from the time you are little you taught to boo the bad guy and cheer the good guy just like in your cartoon and comic books. But when it becomes obvious that what the company really wants is for you to cheer Roman Reigns, doesn't it seem counter productive to have the company's CEO and COO as the bad guys? Thats my point with Reigns. Lance Storm said something similar on a podcast only he was much more eloquent than I was about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I've never laughed because of a laugh track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 And Parv, Reigns is over. Basing this on the reactions of that crowd, a travelling "smart" crowd, is silly. Of course Styles got cheered like mad, it was a surprise and a big deal. If you actually watched RAW regularly you'd see that Reigns is super over in many cities, Denver being the most recent example of a crowd being totally apeshit for him. Saying a guy isn't over based on just casually watching something you already don't care for is bad "journalism". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 And Parv, Reigns is over. Basing this on the reactions of that crowd, a travelling "smart" crowd, is silly. Of course Styles got cheered like mad, it was a surprise and a big deal. If you actually watched RAW regularly you'd see that Reigns is super over in many cities, Denver being the most recent example of a crowd being totally apeshit for him. Saying a guy isn't over based on just casually watching something you already don't care for is bad "journalism".Alright, but tell me this. In the various places this has been posted, why out of 60-odd fans who commented are you the only one to say "no actually he IS over"? The vast majority of comments are actually going into specific moments and booking decisions over the past year that further account for why he's not over. Are you the only sane person out of any of them? Are you the only person out of any of them to watch Raw? Just so happens that every single time I've seen the guy over the past year, he's been booed louder than pretty much any babyface I've ever seen, including the time Cena was booed at that ECW One Night Only thing. At two Rumbles, at Wrestlemania, and on several other shows I've happened to watch. "Yeah but one time in Baltimore, I was there, and they cheered PN News like crazy! And the most over guy on the card was Van Hammer!" It don't mean jack. You have to face the fact that he's not over like he could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I'm on parv's side here I think Johnny's point is a little off base. if he's supposed to be the top guy he shouldn't be getting cheered one week on raw, then booed the next, then indifference then next. He's nowhere near as over as a the top guy should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 My point in the article is that he hasn't really been booked like the top guy so what do you expect? Vince was accused of being tone deaf and not listening to fans two years ago, seems to me he's been listening to the fans quite a lot because there's no other way to account for the muddled direction on Roman. Strikes me as a lack of faith. I could be proved wrong if he just goes over HHH clean as a whistle at Mania and spends the next year defeating all comers. That is still the ONLY way to establish a truly top guy (unless he's literally Dusty or Savage or someone like that, which Roman clearly is not). Johnny, in your view, will that happen? And if not, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet-Left Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Question for Jerry: Were Funk and Backlund ever getting negative reactions like Reigns was at last year's Rumble? It's all well and good two say that those to were booked like winners, whereas Reigns has been booked like a loser, but I can't help but wonder how much benefit of the doubt crowds gave the former two. As in, if Backlund was booed out of the building for the first few weeks of his run, do you really think Vince would've stuck with him? I genuinely don't know because I'm unfamiliar with their respective runs until Race as transitional champ (from Dory to Brisco) and I've seen a cage match between Backlund and Patterson (but not much else from him, until 1994). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Re: regardless of the time or place, wins and losses matter in pro wrestling - not only is he lacking in wins, he's also a victim of the current Vince mandate that faces shouldn't "complain" about losses. Meaning they shouldn't care at all, and should shrug and smile while giving fans daps the night after losing the world title to their corrupt boss. Can you imagine how weird it would have seemed for Austin to react to Vince's Rumble win by grinning like an idiot and saying, "Meh, it is what it is"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 In this day and age, I consider getting any reaction as a sign of being over. I give any worker credit who can come out during the final segment of Raw, after the audience has sat through 3 hours of mostly crap and commercial breaks, and get the crowd to at least care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Parv I liked the article. Reigns clearly would be more over if he won matches that were good . It's all about climbing the mountain and conquering the final obstacle . At least if he got a real push you could see if he's the man or the wrong guy. Sting got a fair push in 88-90 and failed on top. In 92 Simmons got the belt with practically no build and failed. SCSA sure as hell wasn't losing the big ones right before he won the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Question for Jerry: Were Funk and Backlund ever getting negative reactions like Reigns was at last year's Rumble? It's all well and good two say that those to were booked like winners, whereas Reigns has been booked like a loser, but I can't help but wonder how much benefit of the doubt crowds gave the former two. As in, if Backlund was booed out of the building for the first few weeks of his run, do you really think Vince would've stuck with him? I genuinely don't know because I'm unfamiliar with their respective runs until Race as transitional champ (from Dory to Brisco) and I've seen a cage match between Backlund and Patterson (but not much else from him, until 1994). Not Jerry but faces never got booed out of the building during that time frame. Especially ones who won matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 People keep talking as if/when Reigns beats HHH at Mania that will turn the crowd in his favor. HHH got a huge pop after he won the Royal Rumble in front of what people are calling a 'traveling smarky crowd'. Does anyone really believe that in front of the biggest traveling smarky crowd in WWE history, Roman Reigns is going to walk out with a big face reaction and get the same response on Raw the following night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 People keep talking as if/when Reigns beats HHH at Mania that will turn the crowd in his favor. HHH got a huge pop after he won the Royal Rumble in front of what people are calling a 'traveling smarky crowd'. Does anyone really believe that in front of the biggest traveling smarky crowd in WWE history, Roman Reigns is going to walk out with a big face reaction and get the same response on Raw the following night? A likely scenario is "heel" HHH playing to the crowd with DX crotch chops and suck its while Roman stands there "gee shucks" smiling like an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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