WWE Roadblock

[anarchistxx]

Pretty mediocre show but an improvement on an episode of Raw or whatever.

 

- New Day are way too goofy for me - they definitely fail the acid test "would you be embarrassed if someone walked in the room and they were on". Over as fuck though so they deserve their spot. Match was utterly unmemorable, just seemed your generic modern WWE tag match,

 

- Jericho cut another very fun promo. Didn't see the logic in him fighting Jack Swagger though - he spends ten minutes insulting Canada to get a crowd to hate him, and who do they bring out to defend the honour of the nation? A Real American. Seriously bizarre, no wonder the crowd didn't know what to do. The match served a purpose but was again completely mediocre.

- The current NXT wrestlers do nothing for me. None of them that I have seen seem to have much natural charisma or presence. This match was just your indie masturbatory pointlessness. I'm definitely a Vince rather than HHH guy - Roman Reigns has more natural aura tan all of these people put together, shown by the way he naturally drew the fans to him in his heel run and was treated like a star by the audience. It was only when they felt he was being shoved down their throat that the willfully contrarian self important pricks who attend WWE shows turned against him. Surely nobody can argue that Kevin Owens or someone deserves his spot. Most of the NXT graduates like Bo Dallas and Adam Rose and Fandango absolutely bombed on the main roster.

 

- Charlotte/Natalya was the match of the night. Not saying much obviously, and it was a bit of a directionless mess for a while, but after the fiery strike exchange it really picked up and was genuinely exciting. There was a lot of hate and heat, especially with the submissions. Michael Cole made a memorable call for once "Sharpshooter!!! Toronto has come unglued!!!" That should have been the finish rather than the deflating, badly executed 'foot on rope' screwjob. Very fun match. The women's division is very strong right now, and should be way more prominent on the show - goes back to what I've said about cross pollination as well, they should be getting involved in the men's feuds and be right across the card rather than being treated in isolation with their own twenty minute segment each week. Make the show more fluid.

 

That Wyatt/Lesnar thing was bizarre. Bray looks dreadful next to Lesnar anyway, who just oozes star power and natural charisma with the slightest expression or gesture, in the way Bray can only dream of with his endless cheesy Coen Brother monologue rip offs and gimmicks. He doesn't seem threatening or interesting or believable. And the way they booked him here was weird, just avoiding Lesnar and looking utterly cowardly. Unless he was injured there seems no point in it, unless they plan to blow the feud off somewhere down the line. Harper at least looked somewhat believable going toe to toe with Lesnar and actually seems like a bad ass.

- Main event wasn't bad. HHH looks in excellent shape. Had a big match feel. Liked the story with Trips showing his cockiness, Dean going after the leg. It lacked structure after that, and the ending sucked - that announce table bump wasn't nearly enough to take Ambrose out to that extent. Maybe if he had crashed through it from the top rope. For someone who is meant to be able to take masses of punishment, who was totally in control of the match and had all the adrenaline and momentum, it was pretty bemusing to see an elbow drop through the announce table and pedigree finish him off so emphatically.

On a sidenote Ambrose isn't anywhere near as over as people seem to suggest he is when putting him forward as the man who should be in the shoes of Roman Reigns. He isn't even at a quarter of Daniel Bryan a couple of years back, and isn't even as over as a Dolph Ziggler or AJ Styles.

[FMKK]

- The current NXT wrestlers do nothing for me. None of them that I have seen seem to have much natural charisma or presence. This match was just your indie masturbatory pointlessness. I'm definitely a Vince rather than HHH guy - Roman Reigns has more natural aura tan all of these people put together, shown by the way he naturally drew the fans to him in his heel run and was treated like a star by the audience. It was only when they felt he was being shoved down their throat that the willfully contrarian self important pricks who attend WWE shows turned against him. Surely nobody can argue that Kevin Owens or someone deserves his spot. Most of the NXT graduates like Bo Dallas and Adam Rose and Fandango absolutely bombed on the main roster.

Considering the relative diversity of the NXT bunch overall, I think writing them all off as having no charisma or presence is short sighted. Just look at Bayley. Unless of course you're simply referring to the two teams here, in which case I'm not sure what more you expect from what are just solid midcard acts.

 

As for Roman Reigns, he's got more charisma and is a better worker than Kevin Owens for sure. But simply blaming the fans for him not being over misses the obvious elephant in the room - there's absolutely no reason to support his character. He's soulless and passionless on interviews, seems to have no drive or fire when it comes to his motivations, has blown it in big matches time after time, is still living the ruminants of a stable gimmick that ended two years ago and was put into his position ahead of the guy that the entire fan base wanted more in Daniel Bryan. I happen to think that the guy is a really good worker who doesn't get the credit he deserves from the more myopic side of the internet but his onscreen portrayal has undermined him every step of the way.

 

And the likes of Rose and Dallas were booked like shit upon their promotion to the main roster.

[anarchistxx]

I can't speak for all of the NXT workers obviously, as I don't watch the show. Just that all the ones who have been promoted with people raving about them have mostly been failures and come over as unbelievable and forced. Whether that is the booking or just a lack of genuine charisma and talent is clearly up for debate, given the incompetency of the creative team.

 

Agree with most of your points on Roman Reigns, although his whole personality is/was/should be that he is a laid back, cool guy who happens to be a tough badass. He doesn't necessarily need to show a great deal of fire or try to be funny or give himself more distinguishing features to get over. He has certainly been hamstrung by woeful booking, but there is also an argument that if the crowd thinks WWE wants someone to be the main guy they will rebel against it, especially if there are workrate favorites on the roster who the live audience feels deserve a better shot. You have seen it with John Cena for years.

[abrasiveobelisksa]

Personally I find Ambrose to be overrated as a worker as well, certainly not to Reigns at all. As a note, I was watching with my friends and a true casual fan; the casual marked out like mad for HHH and was underwhelmed by Ambrose.

 

I disagree with the idea that the fans will revolt against any "future top star" that the company designates, because if that was the case, why didn't the fans revolt against Reigns at Survivor Series 2013 when his push really started and he cleaned house in his match? Or during the bulk of Rumble 2014, when he went on a tear eliminating everyone? Or during the Shield/Evolution matches, when he was the big focal point of both events? The backlash only started during his singles run when he was both exposed as a worker and hindered by bad booking - and to his credit Reigns has improved leaps and bounds from then.

 

Which NXT match didn't you like (or both, of course): Zayn/Stardust or Revival/Enzo & Cass?

[SteveJRogers]

It sounds tin foil hat ish, but I think a lot of it stems from shit like CM Punk not respectng him (hell, Punk didn't even want him as part of the Shield concept when it was just going to be his protection), the fact that he "fell into" the business instead of wanting to be in it since he was a child, and unlike Ambrose and Rollins, he came into WWE's system right away. There is no Jon Moxley or Tyler Black in Reigns' backstory. After working with the Afa or Sika camp, it was straight to FMW/NXT as "Roman Reigns."

[Strummer]

Ambrose is still the most over full time face in WWE. That's really not saying much in current wwe but he gets the best consistent reactions. Dolph and him were probably equals a year or so back but Dolph has fallen behind him to a pretty substantial degree. He's still more over than Reigns as well. We'll see with AJ

[SteveJRogers]

I'm listening to a podcast describe Reigns as champion as being just a black hole of suck that the WWE is ramming down everyone's throat. And this is AFTER it seemed Reigns was turning a corner with the Raw after TLC.

 

I think its worse than Cena at this point, where fans have already made up their minds to hate Reigns, and won't relent until he is literally removed from the roster. At least Cena haters are regulated to internet users trying too hard to seem smarkish or fans trying to be hip by doing CENA SUCKS chants.

[jcmmnx]

The NXT tag title match was really good.

[SteveJRogers]

FWIW, the podcast returned from a long dry spell, and tried to insinuate that it was a Reigns as Champ protest. Then the hosts admitted that while the protest was a quip, they really do hate Reigns because of his "lack of talent".

 

I'd imagine that is a prevaling thought, and hard to overcome. Reigns truly is the modern day Luger in terms of fans not wanting to even like him, no matter how hard its tried to get him over.

[anarchistxx]

 

 

I disagree with the idea that the fans will revolt against any "future top star" that the company designates, because if that was the case, why didn't the fans revolt against Reigns at Survivor Series 2013 when his push really started

 

He was still working heel at the time, and hadn't been shoved down the throats of the audience as a big singles star. He was merely the breakout guy in The Shield, a stable who were booked well and the fans loved watching. There wasn't an indication at that point he was going to be 'the guy' going forward.

 

 

 

Or during the bulk of Rumble 2014, when he went on a tear eliminating everyone?

 

Strange example. Again, very much at the start of his push, he had not been pushed as a top singles guy at this point. His cheers at the end of the Rumble were unexpected to the WWE hierarchy. Remember that match was supposed to end with the super returning face Batista taking him out to great cheers, but the Daniel Bryan stuff derailed it.

 

If anything, that match backs up completely the idea that the audience want to revolt against the person being pushed as the top star, because Batista was clearly that man at the time, going to Wrestlemania to win back the strap, and the fans shit all over him because they felt he was a corporate sponsored guy being shoved down their throats at the expense of the workrate guys. Exactly what is happening to Roman Reigns now.

 

 

 

Which NXT match didn't you like (or both, of course): Zayn/Stardust or Revival/Enzo & Cass?

 

The tag match. Didn't bother watching the singles match. NXT guys all seem to be able to work solidly (if a little too in the 2005 indie style), they just can't get me into their matches as they lack any sort of aura and don't seem very natural for the most part.

 

I don't think Reigns is that equatable to Luger - he is more of a much lesser version of Cena. He is getting huge reactions, just not the ones he is being booked to get. On the whole, his segments on the show have more heat than most other things. Any news how he affects ratings? That is probably a decent indicator about whether they need to stick with him. He comes across like a star still, which is rare on that roster. He hasn't become Sheamus yet.

 

Probably a heel run with a really despicable mouthpiece is most suited to him for a while, although the idea of him feuding with Ambrose for months doesn't appeal to me at all.

[SteveJRogers]

Again, granted this is based on a single podcast, but I really think NOTHING is going to change anyone's mind that Reigns is anything but a turd. In the ring, on the mike, whatever.

 

Reigns sucks and didn't earn his spot, and that has been so ingrained as part of the argument, you'd almost have to completely reinvent Joe Anoi's gimmick in order for him to even get to a begrudging respect at this point.

[anarchistxx]

 

Again, granted this is based on a single podcast, but I really think NOTHING is going to change anyone's mind that Reigns is anything but a turd. In the ring, on the mike, whatever.

 

Absolute bullshit.

 

You could have said the same about John Cena. He was booed out of every building, getting "you can't wrestle' chants on every show, hated by the majority of the smart community. Most people like him now, or acknowledge him as the biggest star on the roster.

 

What about Mark Henry? He was seen as an embarrassment of a wrestler for years, and it didn't take long for him to turn it around and become lauded for his ring work, mic work etc.

 

The real test is whether RR is moving the ratings one way or another, or the merchandise, or whether his live appearances draw, not the constant campaign by a live audience that is willfully obtrusive whenever they feel they aren't getting their own way.

 

Reigns was massively over with the audience at one stage, there was a genuine buzz about him. They can regain that. It is overblown nonsense to say he is finished forever.

 

 

 

Reigns sucks and didn't earn his spot,

 

Fuck me, what is this 2003? How many top guys at WWE 'earned' their spot over the last three decades?

 

The Undertaker never earned his spot. Ultimate Warrior never earned his spot. Batista never earned his spot. Brock Lesnar never earned his spot. Randy Orton never earned his spot. You know why they got their spot? because they had the right look, the right aura, charisma, they drew a reaction from the crowd, creative liked them, Vince liked them, they fitted the mold, whatever reason. This isn't about paying your dues and working your way up.

 

Take someone like John Cena. He was an internal WWE product (just like Roman Reigns). He got over as a cool heel (just like Roman Reigns). He was turned and quickly pushed to the moon (just like Roman Reigns). The arena fans turned on him (just like Roman Reigns). Did John Cena in 2005 earn his spot anymore than Roman Reigns in 2016? Fuck no. Did he subsequently prove he deserved his spot? Fuck yes.

 

 

 

that has been so ingrained as part of the argument, you'd almost have to completely reinvent Joe Anoi's gimmick in order for him to even get to a begrudging respect at this point.

 

And you're basing that on what fucking podcast. Roman Reigns was treated like a star by the audience less than eighteen months ago. He gets a huge reaction from the crowd. His segments draw heat. He is good in the ring, has a good look, a decent talker. Sure, he has been a victim of some truly awful booking, but there is no way he is finished. He'll be at the top of the WWE for the next five years at least.

[Strummer]

I remember reading a few months ago that Reigns's merchandise was not selling as well as it used to. Cena's numbers were down as well but he's been off TV for the most part the last 5 months

[AstroBoy]

When was the last time any of these special events or PPVs ended on a legitimate happy note? I seriously cannot remember. Maybe Survivor Series 2014? Although the wrestling is fine I legitimately find myself just getting bummed out from watching these shows at this point. Every event ends with a totally deflated crowd.

 

The Sami/Stardust match was so frustrating to watch unfold. You have a new guy coming up in his home country and he actually gets a nice pop, some chants. So they work the match with Stardust controlling, and controlling. . . and controlling. And they're lucky enough to actually have the crowd keep trying to get invested in the match. But after like the 9th cutoff spot, is there any hope to gain a reaction? I understand the layout in theory but come on. Have a six minute match, let Sami shine, and make the fans want more of him. Instead they did that and it was utterly soul crushing.

 

Thought the NXT tag was great and is being slept on a bit. The transition for Revival to take over on Enzo was a really cool spot.

 

Jack Swagger is functionally fine and deserves better but he does nothing with conviction and looks embarrassed to play his spot on the roster.

 

It's amazing how much Roman Reigns is an afterthought of an afterthought in the build to Wrestlemania.

[Parties]

When was the last time any of these special events or PPVs ended on a legitimate happy note? I seriously cannot remember. Maybe Survivor Series 2014? Although the wrestling is fine I legitimately find myself just getting bummed out from watching these shows at this point. Every event ends with a totally deflated crowd.

 

One of the biggest reasons NXT is so over. Faces win in the end, creating lasting memories that matter. Aside from Bryan's retirement and closing out Mania 30, there's been nothing like the Bayley title win on WWE TV in years.

[Grimmas]

I still can't believe they have someone do an anit-Canadian promo and then they bring out the All-American Jack Swagger to defend Canada's honour.

[C.S.]

I still can't believe they have someone do an anit-Canadian promo and then they bring out the All-American Jack Swagger to defend Canada's honour.

 

I have a feeling the Jericho promo was largely ad-libbed to get the crowd to turn on him after he received such a favorable reaction.

[The Chief]

Can I have a 20 minute Lesnar vs Harper match? Please? You can do whatever you want with the rest of the show and I promise I won't complain. Just give me those two beating the shit out of each other. Please.

[WingedEagle]

Anyone watch the Brock/Harper match from the night before Roadblock? Haven't watched yet but hope to check it out.

[Slasher]

I still can't believe they have someone do an anit-Canadian promo and then they bring out the All-American Jack Swagger to defend Canada's honour.

Obviously Swagger thought Canada was just another state in America.

[Stiva]

I'm listening to a podcast describe Reigns as champion as being just a black hole of suck that the WWE is ramming down everyone's throat. And this is AFTER it seemed Reigns was turning a corner with the Raw after TLC.

 

I think its worse than Cena at this point, where fans have already made up their minds to hate Reigns, and won't relent until he is literally removed from the roster. At least Cena haters are regulated to internet users trying too hard to seem smarkish or fans trying to be hip by doing CENA SUCKS chants.

 

Reigns is running into the same problem Cena did in that nobody is actually prepared to be a heel against him. During Cena's 05-07, the only guy who was willing to be a heel opposite him was Edge and both guys were made for life. The likes of Angle, HHH and Michaels refused to even work as a subtle heel opposite the next big guy to make sure people sided with them. Reigns is discovering this first hand with HHH but, at least when he wins the title, he's going to be positioned against workers who aren't so insensitive and paranoid. Being the babyface champ against quality heels i.e. Miz and Jericho might see people forget about being cool and start cheering him.

[Slasher]

Kurt refused to play heel? Are you joking? This is the guy who cut an anti-American military promo and aligned with Daivari post Hassan. It isn't his fault the crowd just plainly refused to boo him over Cena.

[Jimmy Redman]

By that point the attempts to make Angle a "heel" were basically parody. They had him do all this outlandish, clearly out of character stuff like the anti-troops stuff and Daivari and "I'd make Jesus tap" and shit, and it all came off as laughable rather than legitimate attempts to get heat. They even had Angle admit after he said those things that he was just saying whatever bullshit he wanted because he knew the crowd wouldn't boo him anyway.

 

I'm not sure if there actually was a way to play Angle in late 2005 that would have got him real heel heat against Cena because at that point in time crowds were vociferously rejecting him as a "bad wrestler" and putting him up against Olympic wrestler, smarks wet dream Angle was never going to get him cheered no matter what. But yeah I agree it wasn't like Angle wasn't willing to heel it up.

 

I think there's something to be said for structuring Cena's matches better in 2005, because he tended to be treated like he was a useless lug. They had him sell for 90% of the match into a super quick comeback-win finish, which reinforced all of the stereotypes about him not being able to wrestle.

[Jingus]

You could have said the same about John Cena. He was booed out of every building, getting "you can't wrestle' chants on every show, hated by the majority of the smart community. Most people like him now, or acknowledge him as the biggest star on the roster.

And it only took an entire decade.

[cm funk]

I can't speak for all of the NXT workers obviously, as I don't watch the show. Just that all the ones who have been promoted with people raving about them have mostly been failures and come over as unbelievable and forced. Whether that is the booking or just a lack of genuine charisma and talent is clearly up for debate, given the incompetency of the creative team.

 

Obviously......so why speak on something you admittedly know nothing about?

 

I feel like I made this same post with JVK a while back.......

 

I don't talk about the indies or modern lucha or puro on this board because I don't watch enough to feel qualified to have an opinion on the quality

 

Why even say something stupid like "I don't watch so I don't know shit" and then proceed to continue

 

You at least stumbled on one thing.......WWE's booking sucks. But if you can't see Enzo's charisma (or the charisma of many of the NXT talent that you wouldn't even know because you don't watch the shows)......you're as clueless as the idiots at WWE

 

BTW......thought it was a fun show in a bottle.......but the booking was so strange. Who the hell decided to book that Sami-Stardust match that way? I like Cody......but he's been a complete joke......and if Sami is going to be in a big match with the IC Champ why the fuck book that like that when he hasn't had a main roster TV match since the one with Cena and showing up in the Rumble (I know he had the tag on SD!......but still.....wtf)