Grimmas Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 My first soldier has fallen You voted for Rick Steiner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 My first soldier has fallen You voted for Rick Steiner? I think he was my 99 or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 My first soldier has fallen You voted for Rick Steiner? Yeah, WTF ? Good worker for a few years in the late 80's/early 90's, then quickly became the worst Steiner then became a godawful worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 My first soldier has fallen You voted for Rick Steiner? Yeah, WTF ? Good worker for a few years in the late 80's/early 90's, then quickly became the worst Steiner then became a godawful worker. BIGLAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 See his thread; it was explained. Legit love their greatest hits they have like 10 matches at 4.5ish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 My first soldier has fallen You voted for Rick Steiner? Yeah, WTF ? Good worker for a few years in the late 80's/early 90's, then quickly became the worst Steiner then became a godawful worker. BIGLAV BULLSHIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 See his thread; it was explained. Legit love their greatest hits they have like 10 matches at 4.5ish This is why great match theory sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 See his thread; it was explained. Legit love their greatest hits they have like 10 matches at 4.5ish This is why great match theory sucks. Especially when the great matches aren't great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 I agree. Great wrestlers should have terrible matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 I agree. Great wrestlers should have terrible matches. It's not that. It's going by only looking at the great matches and that being the whole case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 There is no single person on this board who looks at great matches and excludes all other factors entirely. Not one. It's a strawman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 No one would bat an eyelid at Magnum TA with a shorter peak. I give Rick 89 to 94. Varsity Club feud is underrated Doom feud is great New Japan crossover matches are legendary Sting and Luger match has been unfairly maligned Money Inc series is under the radar good Rick has more output than a lot of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 There is no single person on this board who looks at great matches and excludes all other factors entirely. Not one. It's a strawman. Parv said he ranked Rick Steiner based on his top ten matches and nothing else. Although he used BIGLAV, so that might discount what he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 The verdict on great match theory is that it's a complete failure. Based on what, exactly? Yeah, this sort of hot take nonsense about the flavour of the day in what constitutes a correct vote is why I'm glad there was an anonymous option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 It just bugs me because it's thrown out there and suddenly this thread needs an Under Construction sign because of all the locked-in narratives that are being built. I sound more worked up than I am, but it is something that is already showing signs of taking a life on of its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Let's just be diplomatic and say some people weighted "number of great matches" more heavily than others when putting together their ballot. Like I can't really say I've seen any GREAT Adrian Street matches but I've seen some great performances of Adrian Street being Adrian Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 It's bugged me from the beginning. I'm not going to spend one second explaining to a fellow adult that I can understand their position and still disagree with it at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Varsity Club feud is underrated Doom feud is great New Japan crossover matches are legendary Sting and Luger match has been unfairly maligned Money Inc series is under the radar good Rick has more output than a lot of guys. He was a good worker during the Varsity Club & Doom feud. Good worker. Some of the New Japan matches are overrated as hell (the very first one, who's the worst Sasaki & Hase match of the year), and those who aren't, well, some great japanese workers made those idiotic Steiners look like Gods. Rick was still good at this point though. The Sting & Luger match is a fun spotfest and wildly overrated. The Money Inc. stuff isn't very good. That cage match is awful. By the mid 90's Rick Steiner was already sloppy and lazy. By the late 90's he was one of the worst worker anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Let's just be diplomatic and say some people weighted "number of great matches" more heavily than others when putting together their ballot. Like I can't really say I've seen any GREAT Adrian Street matches but I've seen some great performances of Adrian Street being Adrian Street. I have no issue with that at all. Number of great matches is absolutely a factor for a lot of people, self included, but to imply that anyone thinks it's the only thing that matters ... I thought we knew each other better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Let's just be diplomatic and say some people weighted "number of great matches" more heavily than others when putting together their ballot. Like I can't really say I've seen any GREAT Adrian Street matches but I've seen some great performances of Adrian Street being Adrian Street. That's probably the best assessment. Number of great matches being weighted so heavily bugged me a lot, especially if it was more important than how someone performs. Some people were just in positions to have a TON of great matches and to have those seen by a lot of people. Others did not. The folks who didn't get those chances aren't necessarily worse than those who did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Let's just be diplomatic and say some people weighted "number of great matches" more heavily than others when putting together their ballot. Like I can't really say I've seen any GREAT Adrian Street matches but I've seen some great performances of Adrian Street being Adrian Street. I have no issue with that at all. Number of great matches is absolutely a factor for a lot of people, self included, but to imply that anyone thinks it's the only thing that matters ... I thought we knew each other better than that. I didn't want to imply that is all that matters, just that it is weighted way too heavily to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 I'm going to start a thread asking for examples of people with long lists of great matches who aren't great, so we don't detour this thread too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 Biglav had six factors and G was only one of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 I'm going to start a thread asking for examples of people with long lists of great matches who aren't great, so we don't detour this thread too much. My last post on this though, it's not that they aren't great, it's just that it doesn't automatically make someone greater than someone who had way less great matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 11, 2016 Report Share Posted April 11, 2016 The Great Match Theory debate popped up again in the list reactions thread, and rather than go down that rabbit hole there, I feel like this is worthy of a topic on its own. My questions are: - Who are some wrestlers who have a long list of great matches that aren't great? - What is it about those wrestlers that made them have so many great matches in spite of not being great? - If great performances don't result in a great match, why is that? What do you think is usually missing in a not-great match that contains at least one great performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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