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Reactions to the List: 10-1


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#21 WingedEagle

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:26 PM

I ranked Kobashi #1, so no surprise that I think he's pretty great.  But how do 6 people that vote for him not vote for Kawada at all?  Have no idea what it says about those ballots, the overall process, nothing.  Its just mind-boggling. 



#22 Childs

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:28 PM

It's kind of amazing that Rey is going to beat Kawada and Kobashi. I don't agree with it and yet I'm kind of happy about it.



#23 soup23

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:35 PM

All three were really close and forced me to do a nitpick comparison side by side. In the end, I weighted things like being the ace and Misawa having absolute classics with Jumbo and Akiyama ahead of Kawada's output in the 80's and in the NJ vs. AJ feud. 

 

I think with Kobashi it is interesting to look at the 89-2005 comparison from both as they both were at a really high level for that entire time. Doing a year by year comparison, it was tough for me to have Kawada ahead on many years besides 1989, 1990, 1991, 1994, and maybe 1995. I feel strongly that Kobashi is ahead in 97-99 although I am sure others see that towards Kawada due to Kobashi's excess. However, I don't see as much egregious excess from Kobashi as Kawada displayed in the 6/6/97 Misawa match and the 5/2/99 Hase match. 2001 is a really nice year for Kawada with Kobashi out on injury but 2003-2004 feel dominant in Kobashi favor although again if you are someone that thinks the overall style regressed in the mid 90's, you are likely to have a different take. 



#24 soup23

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:35 PM

It's kind of amazing that Rey is going to beat Kawada and Kobashi. I don't agree with it and yet I'm kind of happy about it.

 

In the same boat. 



#25 Dylan Waco

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:38 PM

I may be a simpleton but with Funk, Danielson, Rey, Hansen, and Flair left in the top 10, that leaves Liger, Misawa, Kobashi as the only Japanese guys left.  Not seeing the Japanese bias.  I also don't buy Funk's case being made in Japan. Maybe Hansen.


MAYBE Hansen? Really?

Also why I think it's possible to view Funks best stuff as being something other than All Japan, I can't reall imagine anyone voting him this high without All Japan. I've never really considered him a "Japan candidate," but it would probably be at least as dishonest to label him an American one.

#26 CapitalTTruth

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:42 PM

I think by this point we aren't learning much more about the "bias" of the list. At some point someone will finish number 1. If that is an American it doesn't necessarily mean there is an American bias. If that is a Japanese wrestler it doesn't mean there is a Japanese bias.  Bias isn't going to be in the micro level (which is where we are now), it will be seen in the larger patterns that we have already seen or will maybe flesh out more from the data we already know about.



#27 Loss

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:44 PM

Terry Funk is a true multinational. He probably lobbied Congress to pass favorable free trade deals.

#28 Exposer

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 12:45 PM

Rey beating Kawada & Kobashi is awesome.



#29 pol

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:06 PM

I think by this point we aren't learning much more about the "bias" of the list. At some point someone will finish number 1. If that is an American it doesn't necessarily mean there is an American bias. If that is a Japanese wrestler it doesn't mean there is a Japanese bias.  Bias isn't going to be in the micro level (which is where we are now), it will be seen in the larger patterns that we have already seen or will maybe flesh out more from the data we already know about.

 

Yeah, there's far too much trying to support or debunk various theses by pointing to individual placements going on.



#30 anarchistxx

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:30 PM

21 people not voting for Kawada at all is pretty mindblowing. He has at the very least three candidates for the best match of all time and he was a pivotal part of all of those matches. Not as if he fell off a cliff either, he had some very solid work from 2000-2006, albeit at a time when most fans had given up on All Japan.

 

Would love to hear explanations from those who left him off their lists.



#31 Timbo Slice

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:31 PM

With Kobashi over Kawada, The List truly being booked like Baba circa 1995. Misawa the one true ace.

 

Lawler should have been Top 5. Flair was my #1 coming in and he dethroned him. Memphis haters couldn't keep him out of the Top 10, though, so at least we have that.



#32 Timbo Slice

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:31 PM

21 people not voting for Kawada at all is pretty mindblowing. He has at the very least three candidates for the best match of all time and he was a pivotal part of all of those matches. Not as if he fell off a cliff either, he had some very solid work from 2000-2006, albeit at a time when most fans had given up on All Japan.

 

Would love to hear explanations from those who left him off their lists.

Didn't show enough fighting spirit.



#33 El Dragon

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:35 PM

Kinda stunned Mysterio and Bryan both made the top 7. I'll go ahead and be blunt and say they are the top 2 on my list, but my expectation was "Maybe it puts them into the top 10 if things break right" not "Maybe top 5?"



#34 anarchistxx

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 01:47 PM

Kinda stunned Mysterio and Bryan both made the top 7. I'll go ahead and be blunt and say they are the top 2 on my list, but my expectation was "Maybe it puts them into the top 10 if things break right" not "Maybe top 5?"

 

Irony of Danielson beating out the four pillars is that he made his name working a style and promotion that completely fetishized the style they invented. Arguable that ROH never even exists in the form it did without 90s AJPW, the debt is clear in almost all the big matches.



#35 CapitalTTruth

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:13 PM

Rey finally dropping at 7 has got to be the biggest surprise for me. I really like Rey. I get that he was a truly special babyface, but I would have never guessed him at 7. 



#36 Beast

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:15 PM

Will Liger end up beating Misawa to be the top Japanese wrestler?

 

The three big names ended up in reverse order this time. 

 

And the only guy making the top 6 again from ten years ago is Liger.



#37 cubbymark

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:22 PM

As disappointed as I was that Casas finished as low as he did, I am tickled to death that Misterio beat out Kawada and Kobashi on this list.

#38 CapitalTTruth

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:25 PM

I won't be surprised. Kobashi and Kawada made fewer ballots than Rey. Based on the voting so far I would imagine Liger made more ballots than Misawa. He has a sort of mythos that even folks who might have voted more strictly American wrestlers would probably find a place for them on his list. Misawa like got more top 5 votes so it is tough to tell. 



#39 El-P

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:26 PM

I'm very surprised about Misawa being above Kawada and Kobashi, for reasons I'll explain later. Since many people love Kobashi's NOH work, I really expected him to make the top 5.

 

Rey beating both of them simply confirms, again, what I've been saying all along. I had Rey at #18 because, as much as I don't care for 00's WWE style and that damn 619, there was no denying Rey Jr. level of work over the last 20 years.



#40 El-P

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 03:27 PM

I may be a simpleton but with Funk, Danielson, Rey, Hansen, and Flair left in the top 10, that leaves Liger, Misawa, Kobashi as the only Japanese guys left.  Not seeing the Japanese bias.  I also don't buy Funk's case being made in Japan. Maybe Hansen.

 

I totally buy Funk's case, at least half of it, being made in Japan. Hansen is obviously a Japan candidate.

 

Still, I agree with you, obviously, the only japanese guys left there are total sacred cows. They weren't going anywhere.






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