Wrestling's radically progressive view of race and nationality

[jushin muta liger]

This feels like someone discussing how racially progressive blackface is.

Exactly

[JerryvonKramer]

Do people think that Mr. Fuji pretending to be Japanese is comparable to blackface? Serious question.

[Luchaundead]

Some times I think I completely understand JvK's sense of humor (even if I find it not funny) and others I'll left really scratching my head I really can't tell if this post was meant in jest from the beginning or if it was a text book light satire glaze over a serious point.

 

Do people think that Mr. Fuji pretending to be Japanese is comparable to blackface? Serious question.

Yes people see it that way when they are accounting for intent as I said if the idea is "People won't know he's not actually Japanese as long as he does these stereotypical things" then yes it's as racist as black-face.

[Jingus]

It's not identical, but it's along the same lines. Wrestling being perfectly happy to cast vaguely-ethnic-looking Westerners as exotic foreign heels is a pretty despicable trend which is awfully hard to defend on any moral level, but it's still something that continued all the way into the 21st century. Y hello thar, Muhammad "Italian guy from New York" Hassan!

[jushin muta liger]

Do people think that Mr. Fuji pretending to be Japanese is comparable to blackface? Serious question.

Fuji was a Japanese American. He had some Japanese hertiage even though he was born in Hawaii.

 

You mentioned Adnan playing a Native American and that's similar to playing blackface cause that's not his heritage and it would be insulting for actual Native Americans to see.

 

Let's be modern here for a second: Thea Trinidad and Sara Stock played Mexicans named Rosita and Sarita in TNA. Trinidad is Puerto Rican and Stock is Canadian. Was it radically progressive when they were in the ring Hernadez and I forget the other guy having Cinco De Mayo in the ring as heels?

 

[Eduardo]

Yeah Phil has a point. Seriously, this whole thread just leaves me really confused, on several levels. is JvK poking fun at himself or what?

[JerryvonKramer]

It's not identical, but it's along the same lines. Wrestling being perfectly happy to cast vaguely-ethnic-looking Westerners as exotic foreign heels is a pretty despicable trend which is awfully hard to defend on any moral level, but it's still something that continued all the way into the 21st century. Y hello thar, Muhammad "Italian guy from New York" Hassan!

 

That deal was made slightly worse by the fact that he was meant to be of Arabic decent and Davari was speaking Farsi. I can speak a bit of Farsi myself, and Davari's rants were quite amusing, but still, they hadn't moved on a single bit from Iron Sheik becoming Col Mustafa.

[Luchaundead]

 

Do people think that Mr. Fuji pretending to be Japanese is comparable to blackface? Serious question.

Fuji was a Japanese American. He had some Japanese hertiage even though he was born in Hawaii.

 

You mentioned Adnan playing a Native American and that's similar to playing blackface cause that's not his heritage and it would be insulting for actual Native Americans to see.

 

Let's be modern here for a second: Thea Trinidad and Sara Stock played Mexicans named Rosita and Sarita in TNA. Trinidad is Puerto Rican and Stock is Canadian. Was it radically progressive when they were in the ring Hernadez and I forget the other guy having Cinco De Mayo in the ring as heels?

 

 

The other guy was Anarquia who also wrestled as Low-rider but not the good one

[Loss]

Yeah Phil has a point. Seriously, this whole thread just leaves me really confused, on several levels. is JvK poking fun at himself or what?

 

I think this was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, yes.

[Indikator]

That tag match claim is either completely stupid or locally isolated. Just like most wrestling claims.

 

A comparable matchup, no mixed teams:

June 8th 1939, Whitey Wahlberg & Frankie Talaber beat Jack Claybourne & Black Panther (Jim Mitchell)

 

It's really interesting to follow the naming of old national gimmicks. You have a midget named after Haile Selassie, some greek guy who wrestled under the name of a dictator (George Kondylis) - which makes it really difficult to find any information for the wrestler as the guy was still in power . If Gutenberger wants to know about certain names, I might be able to help. Basically for "nazis" it's either the mothers maiden name (Hans Schnabel, August Von Schindler) or some politics/pop culture reference (Von Stroheims were named after a director, the Von Brauners after the rocket scientist).

 

I am aware of blackface in Russia around 1910 where somebody had to impersonate an African. One of the bigger names was an Estonian who had the gimmick of being from Mongolia. Killer Khan btw is from Korea iirc *cough*

 

My favorite gimmick name that I hate is Joe Stalin. Wrestled in Georgia in the early 50s. No clue who it was. But they named him Joe fucking Staling. Joe! For fucks sake, it makes Jose ==> Joe conversions seem sensible in comparison.

 

So if you have questions if certain names have ever been used feel free to ask. There was one Adolph Hitler, his real name might have been Otto Ludwig

[van_Fair]

 

 

Do people think that Mr. Fuji pretending to be Japanese is comparable to blackface? Serious question.

 

Fuji was a Japanese American. He had some Japanese hertiage even though he was born in Hawaii.

You mentioned Adnan playing a Native American and that's similar to playing blackface cause that's not his heritage and it would be insulting for actual Native Americans to see.

Let's be modern here for a second: Thea Trinidad and Sara Stock played Mexicans named Rosita and Sarita in TNA. Trinidad is Puerto Rican and Stock is Canadian. Was it radically progressive when they were in the ring Hernadez and I forget the other guy having Cinco De Mayo in the ring as heels?

The other guy was Anarquia who also wrestled as Low-rider but not the good one

Who as far as I know is also Canadian. No one in Mexican America was actually Mexican since Hernandez is from Texas, but then again that faction was a complete shitshow anyway.

[jdw]

This feels like someone discussing how racially progressive blackface is.

 

Nah. More like someone trying to make a Pro Wrestling Mostly type of thread, but threw it in this folder because he knows he doesn't have the talent to pull off something like this with the concept:

 

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/12441-the-storied-pro-wrestling-career-of-madonna

[Gutenberger]

Here it is:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz-ReXs3xqY

 

Say what you want about the gimmick, but that is fearless commitment to getting heat.

Yes. That is pure dedication.

 

"The champion of ALL Germany" though. . .

[Floaker]

This feels like someone discussing how racially progressive blackface is.

That's because that is what the OP is proposing in an askance way. The claim is that if the person coming from a different ethnicity than they portray then this shows we are all the same and race doesn't matter.

 

This argument is an act of ignoring that racism/white supremacy is more than just individual prejudice but is a structural system to preference white people over others. Just because someone comes from a different ethnicity than they portray, the use of racism and jingoistic calls to the nation are still identical. The structural effects to belittle or enhance are the same. With blackface it was to portray black people in a certain comedic/savage light (EDIT: a role that many black people were put in a position to portray themselves). In these and all the wrestling cases in the OP the performance has been used to reinforce nationalism and/or white supremacy.

 

I'd suggest the OP look up articles covering colour-blind racism.