Regional bias in American wrestling talk

[Loss]

WCW used to get knocked around a lot for being "too Southern". Bischoff thought that image was one of the big things holding WCW back from being competitive with the WWF and worked hard to change it. People like to crack on AJ Styles' accent. This is fine on its own, but why is this sort of regionally-based criticism pretty limited to the South? ECW had a lot of acts that wouldn't play as well outside the Northeast like the FBI but I never once heard ECW called "too Northeastern", and I never hear anyone criticizing any wrestler's New Yawk accent.

 

It often seems like in wrestling talk that what's Northeastern is what's considered the standard. We see that with WWE and comparisons to other national groups and have for as long as I can remember, but we also see it with the indies, where ROH got a lot more coverage than West Coast indies or IWA Mid South back in the 2000s. The same seems to be true today, as I'm not sure Southern indies would be on anyone's radar if not for Dylan.

 

Just something I'd like to explore more.

[Indikator]

One thing I have noticed when researching Southern wrestling in the 1950's is that there were quite some Canadians working there. It's possible that they were edged out in favour of nepotism and as the pure wrestling ability of those was inferior it likely resulted in the bad reputation of southern wrestling. We all know of the good reputation of the Hamilton boys, so if such able wrestlers get replaced by scientifically inept kickpunch guys there will be many people who will be dismissive of all their abilities. The behaviour of the promoters did not help, either.

[PeteF3]

Ha, I recently had this to say about one of Cornette's 1997 rants: "Does *anyone* from the South like Connecticut? I haven't been there myself but man does that place seem to angry up the blood in these people ... I'm not a guy to fetishize NYC or any particular part of it but there's honestly a bit of over-the-top regionalism here that I'm not comfortable with."

 

1996 and '97 was just filled with on-air comments from guys like Ross and Cornette about how Connecticut is an "overpriced hellhole." That state also drove Schiavone out of the WWF, I think mostly over the cost of living. It's definitely not nearly used as an indictment of the region itself, but the Northeast and Midwest territories *do* have a much greater reputation for being stodgy and boring whereas all the action was in the South and in Texas. I'm not even saying that's totally untrue but I'm pretty sure it's less true than some people like Cornette would have you believe.

[Jingus]

I do think there's definitely some bias against Southern promotions. I'll put it this way: quick, name a major indy company which is routinely featured on major news websites and has its video sold in the larger "tape-trading" outlets (or their modern equivalent), and which also primarily runs its shows in former Confederate territory. Could you think of any? And if you did, were they running somewhere besides Florida?

 

It probably has to do with population density and technological usage. Shows in the South tend to be promoted in smaller towns most of the time, by promotions which typically aren't focusing on internet sales to prop up their income streams. It's pretty common to have some random indy show with a Jerry Lawler-type in the main event to draw a thousand people to a high school gymnasium in a little town in the middle of nowhere, but you rarely hear about that outside of maybe a two-sentence blurb buried way down on the back page of the Observer.

[sek69]

I think it's just a full-circle thing. Seems like California was the hot place in the late 50s-60 then it seemed to fall off the map. Southern territories dominated the 70s into the 80s until the WWF took over, and then in the 90s the northeast became the next hotbed.

[Noah's_Savior]

I think Eric Bischoff, and others', stigma about being "too southern" might stem from people equating lack of intelligence and other unappealing qualities to a southern accent. This crop of talent on the WWE's main roster may have the most diverse set of english accents, like newscasters the talent develop a neutral accent.

 

Granted, I only have 6 years of wrestling watching under my belt but I'd believe there to be a regional bias in US wrestling talk.

[overbooked]

Isn't this all part of a wider cultural bias between the north and south? Plus so much mainstream media being northern?

 

And isn't the counterpoint that plenty equate Southern Wrestling as Proper Wrestling. So much of the language and terminology we use when discussing wrestling has southern origins - southern tag, playing Ricky Morton etc. Many ideals around good wrestling are rooted in southern wrestling tropes.

[Luchaundead]

Speaking from personal experience having roots in both Pacific Northwest and Southern California, both regions don't really seem to have bias against them but more just a lack of exposure. Even to this day people seem to be very unaware of there being an indy scene here at all other an PWG which at this point is all fly in talent from around the world. I do find my self stumping for my "local" guys more than other even if I do think Brian Cage would be better suited a Botchin' Machine rather than a fornicating one. So I do see that there clearly are regional bias at work even just in my own opinions.

[flyonthewall2983]

With regards to WCW, they probably should have just picked up and settled roots elsewhere once they signed Hogan. Kevin Nash brought this up in his latest timeline, that they did several shows in Las Vegas at the time and that probably would have been the best option. If Turner and later Time Warner would have let them do this is another matter, as I'm sure there were people on the corporate side who wanted to keep it close.

 

If I ever won Powerball and went all in on a promotion, I would base it out of Chicago. Mostly out of just pride of being a Midwesterner and that of the history of wrestling in places like Indianapolis, Detroit, St. Louis and Minneapolis.

[El-P]

Is this just wrestling related though ? How many people with Southern accent do you hear on national TV and programs ?

It's kinda the same thing in France. Regional accents are erased from TV, except on shows with regional flavors or sports-broadcasting that have an historical attachment to some regions like the south with rugby. Language is getting streamlined.

[Gutenberger]

Same thing in Germany. They even do subtitles for some of the accents on the TV. German subs for german language, for crying out loud!

[Loss]

It's not limited to just wrestling for sure, but non-Southern accents that are also regional don't seem to be as stigmatized. Another reason it's odd to me is that until recent years, our Presidents usually had Southern accents. So why would it not matter in politics but matter in other things? And why did WWE never get the "Southern" stigma when guys like Austin, Undertaker, Michaels, Jim Ross, Lawler, the Hardys and plenty of other big names of the time also had Southern accents to varying degrees?

[Indikator]

I rather have the impression that many things, if not everything is getting streamlined. So accents are phased out in order to have one common denominator of a language that is an amalgam of the more accessible aspects of a language. (@Gutenberger: Überleg mal die Ausbreitung von Hochdeutsch und wie immer weniger Berliner Schnauze können)

It's basically the effect that huge cities (+5million) with all kinds of people from all over the world have. As the media is centered there and media people and artists gravitate there you just end up with some kinda bland mesh of a language. And don't forget how MTV began a process of streamlining music worldwide. Whenever I Reggaeton I just shake my head wondering why the rich and beautiful music history of that area was replaced by this wretched pile of shit. Then I consider how music has been streamlined since 1980. It's not necessarily bias, it's just globalisation of some sorts.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

It's not limited to just wrestling for sure, but non-Southern accents that are also regional don't seem to be as stigmatized.?

As a Minnesotan, I disagree. The movie Fargo lingers over our heads to this day (it's one of my favorite movies, FWIW).

 

Austin had a southern accent and seemed to use it to effectively build his everyman badass anti-authority character. A lot of college football coaches also dial up their southern accents to 11, even non-southern coaches. They think it makes them sound more relatable and down-to-earth.

 

From this northerner's perspective, Texas is a southern state that seems to be perceived as cooler than the other "dumb" southern states like Alabama or Florida.

[fxnj]

It's not limited to just wrestling for sure, but non-Southern accents that are also regional don't seem to be as stigmatized. Another reason it's odd to me is that until recent years, our Presidents usually had Southern accents. So why would it not matter in politics but matter in other things? And why did WWE never get the "Southern" stigma when guys like Austin, Undertaker, Michaels, Jim Ross, Lawler, the Hardys and plenty of other big names of the time also had Southern accents to varying degrees?

There's a stigma against southern accents because states in the Deep South, where you'll find the thickest accents in the country, happen to also be the poorest, least educated, and most obese. Combine that with the region's history with the civil war and the rampant racism and it's a pretty easy region to make fun of.

 

Half those guys you listed as being able to work around a southern accent are from Texas. I think, given the area's wealth and popularity as a vacation destination, there's not much association with the neighboring Deep South, so that's what makes it possible for people get a Texan accent over without getting branded as a southern guy. Same thing for Florida.

[...TG]

 

It's not limited to just wrestling for sure, but non-Southern accents that are also regional don't seem to be as stigmatized. Another reason it's odd to me is that until recent years, our Presidents usually had Southern accents. So why would it not matter in politics but matter in other things? And why did WWE never get the "Southern" stigma when guys like Austin, Undertaker, Michaels, Jim Ross, Lawler, the Hardys and plenty of other big names of the time also had Southern accents to varying degrees?

There's a stigma against southern accents because states in the Deep South, where you'll find the thickest accents in the country, happen to also be the poorest, least educated, and most obese. Combine that with the region's history with the civil war and the rampant racism and it's a pretty easy region to make fun of.

 

Half those guys you listed as being able to work around a southern accent are from Texas. I think, given the area's wealth and popularity as a vacation destination, there's not much association with the neighboring Deep South, so that's what makes it possible for people get a Texan accent over without getting branded as a southern guy. Same thing for Florida.

 

RE: the "rampant racism" of the South, singling out the South for racism is one of the laziest stereotypes there is. I saw more overt racism growing up in the Cincinnati area than I do now in Dallas. Partially that could be the changing times, of course. OTOH, I saw some dude just waving the Confederate flag on a busy street corner a couple weeks ago in Dallas, so what do I know.

[...TG]

Same thing in Germany. They even do subtitles for some of the accents on the TV. German subs for german language, for crying out loud!

 

You'll occasionally see the same thing here in the States - that Here Comes Honey Boo Boo reality show that was popular a few years ago was subtitled is the one I can remember

[MoS]

This does not mean much, probably, because this bias existed in wrestling well before globalisation, but foreigners in 3rd world countries like myself - and even first world countries, I'd say - immediately associate America with New York or L.A. No one really thinks of Alabama or Mississippi when they think of America here. So for promoters like Vince with international ambitions, it might have been thought to be a marketing hindrance.

 

Although that doesn't explain the specific North-Eastern part of ECW that Loss mentioned.

[El-P]

 

 

It's not limited to just wrestling for sure, but non-Southern accents that are also regional don't seem to be as stigmatized. Another reason it's odd to me is that until recent years, our Presidents usually had Southern accents. So why would it not matter in politics but matter in other things? And why did WWE never get the "Southern" stigma when guys like Austin, Undertaker, Michaels, Jim Ross, Lawler, the Hardys and plenty of other big names of the time also had Southern accents to varying degrees?

There's a stigma against southern accents because states in the Deep South, where you'll find the thickest accents in the country, happen to also be the poorest, least educated, and most obese. Combine that with the region's history with the civil war and the rampant racism and it's a pretty easy region to make fun of.

 

Half those guys you listed as being able to work around a southern accent are from Texas. I think, given the area's wealth and popularity as a vacation destination, there's not much association with the neighboring Deep South, so that's what makes it possible for people get a Texan accent over without getting branded as a southern guy. Same thing for Florida.

 

RE: the "rampant racism" of the South, singling out the South for racism is one of the laziest stereotypes there is. I saw more overt racism growing up in the Cincinnati area than I do now in Dallas. Partially that could be the changing times, of course. OTOH, I saw some dude just waving the Confederate flag on a busy street corner a couple weeks ago in Dallas, so what do I know.

 

I'd dream of a southern heel coming out to "Rednecks" by Randy Newman. Of course the subtleties of the song would fly over 90% of the pro-wrestling audience I guess, but it would be amazing, still.

[El-P]

BTW, I've gotta say, I love the southern accent drawl. Maybe that plays a part in why Dutch Mantell and Lance Russel are two of my all-time favourite announcers.

[van_Fair]

BTW, I've gotta say, I love the southern accent drawl. Maybe that plays a part in why Dutch Mantell and Lance Russel are two of my all-time favourite announcers.

I have to second that, out of all the American accents it is easily my favorite.

 

It is probably a case where the accent outside of the country is much more popular than within the country.

[JRH]

Also, i think the hardy boyz were able to get over the "southern" thing not just due to their high-flying style but also by their ring attire. They didnt go for the stereotypical redneck brawler look, instead they had a more "modern" look to them. You may not like the casual clothes they wore, but it helped them get over with the younger crowd who likely dressed like that, and it was a HUGE improvement to their ridiculous neon-covered tights they wore pre-push. With those things in play, nobody cared that they had southern accents.

[The Thread Killer]

I never hear anyone criticizing any wrestler's New Yawk accent.

I hate to contradict you Loss, but you are forgetting this classic quote from Vince Russo, explaining why people hate him:

 

People hate the character that they saw in WCW in 2000, and have convinced themselves that that REALLY is Vince Russo, rather then somebody who was just embellishing what people outside of New York wanted to believe New Yorkers were “really” like. People from New York are stereotyped, and there is a prejudice cast upon them if they happened to grow up in that part of the country. What else can it be? A man from Oklahoma, who started working for the WWE about the same time I did, is revered over his comments concerning today’s wrestling, while I am crucified for those same sediments? Why? Because he wears a cowboy hat, and I say “Bro”? Because he comes from more of the south while I come from Brooklyn?

Clearly, there is a pro-South, anti-New York bias, Loss. What else could it be?

 

I disagree with your sediments about regional bias.

[Loss]

I can't think of any other reason people wouldn't like Vince Russo or might like Jim Ross better. That's amazing.

[El-P]

I can't think of any other reason people wouldn't like Vince Russo or might like Jim Ross better. That's amazing.

 

Yeah, his promos and interactions were so good in WCW and TNA. I mean, so damn good.