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Has this project meant anything outside our bubble?


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#21 CapitalTTruth

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 05:29 PM

If nothing else, at least one person (its me) - who probably would not have otherwise - will make their future son(s) or daughter(s) watch Shinobu Kandori, and Sangre Chicana matches (among others) because of the discoveries made through this project over the last year.  If that isn't victory I don't know what is.



#22 Loss

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 06:21 PM

 

There was no goal to create or reshape or take back any type of narrative about what makes a good worker. This was just meant to be fun. There was no power struggle over the accepted truth that was attempted, and if there was, we would have failed miserably in that regard anyway. So what? I don't really care for the tone of the first post because it suggests a type of calculation that was never in play. That is never what this project was supposed to be. If someone sees a high number next to someone's name and decides to check that wrestler out for the first time, that is the most anyone can hope for.

 

thank you very much, this is the sort of thing i was worried about with the OP!

 

it just seems to me like if you're putting yourself out there publicly as much, across multiple formats, as someone like you or Dylan does, that shows some desire to be heard and to be taken seriously.  speaking as someone who's done something similar (live streaming) for years, it always seemed to me that influencing others & gaining popularity are inherent motivations for broadcasting yourself.  otherwise it would be a lot less stressful just to shoot the breeze with your pals off-air, no?

 

if there's some other perk here i'm missing, i am genuinely curious and would like to hear more thoughts!

 

 

Great wrestling is exciting and awesome. When I love something, I want to talk about it, because I want others who are like-minded ("like-minded" meaning people who enjoy critical viewing of wrestling of all styles from all time periods) to watch it, and I hope they enjoy it as much as I do. But that's about where it ends.

 

I don't know any wrestling fans that I haven't met through this medium, and if I did, I'm not sure I'd want to talk about wrestling with them -- not because I think I'm better than them, but because I'd rather not invade their comfort zone. I'd hear a few crazy things that would bewilder me (like the time a co-worker 15 years ago told me that a "shoot" is a wrestling match that is real, like when The Rock and HHH had their ladder match at Summerslam '98), and then I'd become That Guy in how I responded. And I really don't want to be That Guy. I'm thrilled to be in a bubble.



#23 WingedEagle

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 06:39 PM

I guess if I have any hope related to GWE and the outside world it's that the threads will be a resource for someone who comes along in a year or two, hoping to dig deeper. The Smarkschoice threads played that role for me before they disappeared.

 

 

 

This is definitely my biggest GWE takeaway. I've still got a ridiculously long playlist compiled during the process that I've barely scratched the surface on.  Which is great.



#24 goc

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 08:20 AM

Pretty much, no.  But I never expected it would and tried to tell people who were looking at it as some kind of uber important time capsule that was being left behind for future generations that they were taking it way too seriously.



#25 CapitalTTruth

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 08:25 AM

I have only been here a year (and very on and off), but I find any notion that this would be remotely impact beyond the boards here and a few peripheral circles related to boards kind of insane… and never got that feeling that was the intent. Hell, the ballot number was GREAT, and that tells you all you need to know about how representative or vital this might be outside this bubble. It wasn't a representative sample of anything beyond a population of wrestling fans with an inclination to critically engage wrestling. The project itself took on the culture of PWO when it took on a level of detail and content output that is really going to only appeal fans with a certain level of investment. Even among wrestling fans that is a small slice of the pie.  I have a few friends who like wrestling and only one of them (the one who told me about this board in the first place) would have ANY interest in any of this. But that is the point of boards like PWO and the podcasts, to provide outlets for fans of wrestling with a certain level of passion and a desire to channel that into critical engagement. Honestly, for me it was a matter of timing. I was sort hitting a surge in my wrestling fandom right around the time I had chunks of time free up. If I have come to this board 3-4 years ago I would have either been overwhelmed or just rolled my eyes checked out. 

 

I have talked about it elsewhere, but the project has been amazing for me as someone who entered at the very tail end. It has given me a ton of motivation to watch new stuff, given me a few different road maps, and provided me with TONS of audio material for my bikerides.  I basically got into Lucha and Joshi because of various podcasts and discussions stemming from this project and now I am in love with both. It made me want to watch WoS and Shoot Style. It motivated me to rewatch some stuff and get more into the territory stuff. It made me think critically about what I like in wrestling and what I don't. It challenged me build cases for wrestlers on my own (even though I didn't vote), which I find to be a valuable mental exercise and doesn't take away from how I enjoy wrestling at all. If anything it made me appreciate different takes on wrestling that I may have been dismissive of before. 

 

I know that isn’t “outside the bubble”, but it may be somewhat representative of the larger value of something like this in the internet age. As people discover this space organically there is now a ton of fairly well organized discussion archived. This is not the kind of project you can just throw someone who isn't involved or hasn't found their way here into and expect them to like. It is a varied and multifaceted project that produced a ton of content.  For fans that are interested in ready in that sort of examination, I think this offers a lot. I imagine there are fans that will sort of stumble upon this stuff for the next few years and maybe pick their way through some of it and discover lots of cool stuff. I don't think you are going to find some "measure" of external influence for this, but I imagine it will have some – albeit inconsistent – staying power.  Hell even if the board is gone in 10 years and a whole new board uses this as a reference point for another project, that seems cool to me.



#26 raul

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 10:52 PM

Someone posted it to /wooo/ when the list finished but most of the discussion seemed to just be about how Cena was higher than Tana; confusion over the lack of those wrestlers who didn't have enough footage (thesz, etc) Also, capitaltruth, I'm with ya. This place has been very informational for me as well.

#27 Microstatistics

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 12:58 AM

The simple answer is no. Most you can hope for is people look at wrestlers like Negro Casas at #22 or Yoshiaki Fujiwara at #40 and check them out based on the relatively high rank.

 

Also the reactions to the list on places like reddit and others have been primarily negative anyways with criticisms you'd expect like "Jerry Lawler at 10?" or "Seriously El Dandy?" or "Angle and Taker so low and Cena at 30?".



#28 ThomasFromIowa

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 12:37 AM

I came to this board to read the GWE stuff and stuck around. I think GWE is only ever going to interest people who make a point to try and watch every style of wrestling which isn't a large amount of people. But I think GWE is a project that really does serve as a reference point for people within that interest.



#29 CapitalTTruth

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 07:09 PM

I came to this board to read the GWE stuff and stuck around. I think GWE is only ever going to interest people who make a point to try and watch every style of wrestling which isn't a large amount of people. But I think GWE is a project that really does serve as a reference point for people within that interest.

I think that point about style is a good one. I was listening to one of the podcasts earlier and started pondering how the project really seamed to push people to expand their horizons and that was one of the key ways of manifesting things like "doing your homework" or "doing due diligence" etc.  I think a lot of fans are implicitly or explicitly uninterested in checking out stuff that they aren't already into. Expanding one's horizons is often "organic" at best and "accidental" at its most honest, rarely methodical outside of populations as invested in something as those on this board are in wrestling.



#30 Parties

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 09:18 PM

One thing I think of when reading this thread is: your tastes are largely defined by the company you keep, or as a product of your environment. If my entire experience of wrestling (esp. fan communities) was Reddit and Meltzer, then I'd likely think Tanahashi was better than Cena too. To that end, lucky break that I (we?) got exposed to DVDVR/Wrestling KO/Segunda Caida early on.



#31 GOTNW

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 05:35 AM

One thing I think of when reading this thread is: your tastes are largely defined by the company you keep, or as a product of your environment. If my entire experience of wrestling (esp. fan communities) was Reddit and Meltzer, then I'd likely think Tanahashi was better than Cena too. To that end, lucky break that I (we?) got exposed to DVDVR/Wrestling KO/Segunda Caida early on.

Man having other people's opinions influence you to that level must be extremely boring.

#32 BigBadMick

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:11 AM

That's a bit harsh, GOTNW. I know that two years here has dampened my enthusiasm for Angle and Michaels. That doesn't make me a sheep.

 

You're young and fiercely independent. Give it a few years - these type of things will matter less.



#33 GOTNW

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 10:18 AM

Idk I don't see myself ever agreeing with something like that. It's natural that your surroundings would influence what you watch but if the end game of discovering more wrestling and communities is just appropriating their opinions and common wisdom then discovering them didn't really mean much for you after all.



#34 BigBadMick

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:09 AM

It's not that I've appropriated opinions and wisdom from here, entirely.

 

I know people are loathe to speak of a pwo type of fan, but to me it falls broadly into a pro-80s and 90s US fan with a definite cooling off of enthusiasm for the noughties. That's me to a tee. The only thing I found jarring when first discovering the board was the Angle and Michaels talk.



#35 funkdoc

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 11:40 AM

it's more about learning different approaches and then feeling those out for yourself, i think

 

i doubt most people would naturally think "the punch is the most common move in pro wrestling, so it's really important to have a good one" because they watch for the other stuff

 

also i'm glad to see /wooo/ mentioned, that's the sort of thing i was thinking about.  that's part of a 4chan offshoot board so of course they'd be huge Japan fanboys!



#36 Loss

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:29 PM

 

One thing I think of when reading this thread is: your tastes are largely defined by the company you keep, or as a product of your environment. If my entire experience of wrestling (esp. fan communities) was Reddit and Meltzer, then I'd likely think Tanahashi was better than Cena too. To that end, lucky break that I (we?) got exposed to DVDVR/Wrestling KO/Segunda Caida early on.

Man having other people's opinions influence you to that level must be extremely boring.

 

 

On the contrary, I'd imagine that having impenetrable views on wrestling would be even more boring. It's not so much about parroting the opinions of others as it is reading something that makes me think about a match in a different way. That has happened for me many times around here.



#37 GOTNW

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:04 PM

Being extreme in either isn't an ideal, though I'd argue it's much more important for someone to be interested in different kinds of wrestling and self reflection (specifically noticing how their taste changes with time and why). When you speak of someone having impenetrable views of wrestling I think of someone having a core set of values-this is good, this is bad and it can't be otherwise. Sometimes a comment will let you see a match in a different light, though there is an argument to be made that unless that's due to your lack of context or a match just not "clicking" for you for whatever reason (there's a thread for the millitary industrial suplex to be had about something like this actually) that it's verging off into narrative creation that doesn't have much to do with the match itself.

#38 Loss

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:41 PM

That would depend entirely on what the comment is.



#39 dawho5

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:37 PM

I would think that it is far more beneficial to me as a wrestling fan (and in other areas of life) to be open to at least consider somebody else's viewpoint on a topic.  I have, in scope, a very limited view of things based on my experiences.  If reading several intelligently written pieces on any topic I either hadn't considered before or had dismissed as not worth my time doesn't at least make me think about it again something is wrong.  At best I'm going back to see if maybe I hadn't seen whatever it was in the right light and I can, at the very least, respect what was done in a match (if we're talking wrestling) even if I don't care to watch it that much.  

 

To me it's not about letting other people's opinions influence me.  It's about seeing something a different way and maybe learning something new.  I may not, but it's hard to argue that taking up to 20 to 30 minutes of my day to re-watch (or watch for the first time) a match and understand it better isn't worth my time.



#40 cad

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:45 PM

That doesn't sound like defining yourself by the company you keep.






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