Joey Styles has been released

[sek69]

Wonder how long Jesse Ventura would have lasted on the "do not disobey boss's orders" front. Either this is about the offensiveness of the comment or it isn't. If it's simply about disobeying the boss, I expect to see people go a lot easier on Michael Cole with Vince in his ear, etc. If it's about the offensiveness of the comment and that alone, call a spade a spade.

 

 

It literally isn't about the offensiveness of the comment, it's about making a point that you're going against what the boss told you to do. And yes, 1980s Jesse would not have lasted in today's environment. Neither would Bobby Heenan's jokes about comparing Tito Santana to a cue ball where you get more english the harder you hit him. Times change. Just like things in Looney Tunes cartoons from the 40s wouldn't fly today either.

[C.S.]

Mickie James defends Joey Styles:

 

Dear Joey Styles,

I want you to know that I love you. In the midst of all this ugliness surrounding you at the moment I think it's important you know that. From me and all your friends who you've helped throughout your career. How so many have forgotten that because they'd prefer to jump on the bandwagon to make themselves relevant is sad to say the least. I've known you for many years & you've always been nothing but respectful & loving to me. I've never seen you be disrespectful to any woman in the business. If anything you've always been so supportive & kind. I thank you for that. It's a shame that a JOKE, whether it be in bad taste or not, has been taken so far out of context. I'm curious as to what the lady involved thought of this whole thing. Because if it had been me, I would've popped because I understand comedic context. Call me old school but had you been a comedian, or an actor in a movie, everyone would've laughed. It's only because everyone is tiptoeing in this politically correct, sponsor endorsed, & way overly sensitive generation that it's been blown way out the water. Last I checked this is the wrestling business. A business where we have cursed, endorsed sexuality to all kinds of extremes, kissed asses, and even murdered on live tv, that a little political joke seems to be the least of offensive things done. I understand we are in a new era but for goodness sake let's not lose our sense of humor, or the sight of why we all fell in love with this business in the 1st place. That is to be a character, that can do and say things they would never do or say in real life. Because it's acting! Also, for all your "Friends" who have jumped on the bandwagon now that you've been "Fired", also a complete joke because you CAN NOT fire an independent contractor, they should be ashamed of themselves. Yes they have a right to their own opinion but we should also remember... people in Glass Houses shouldn't throw stones. That means pretty much everyone in this business as it's one of the dirtiest games ever played. That's my 2 cents... and it's worth exactly what you paid for it... but since everyone else seems to feel so important to throw out their public statements then why not. Lastly, I will say this again... I love you, I respect you, and I respect everything you've done for this business that I adore. This too shall pass...

Always your Friend,

Mickie James-Aldis

https://www.facebook.com/mickieljames/posts/1640214492670850

[JerryvonKramer]

If you watch the clip, he says "Gabe told me not to say anything political, but I don't listen to what people say, here is my gross Trump joke" So not only did he go against what he was directly told, he basically told his boss to fuck off right before he did it.

 

Breaking kayfabe on top of the other sins. Deserves firing just for that! Poor old Styles must be so confused. This sort of "I'm going to flip off my boss" shit got Austin and Sandman wild cheers in the 90s.

 

I just don't believe that anyone is really up in arms about him disobeying Gabe. "Man disobeys boss" is nothing anyone cares about. It's about the comment and it being offensive.

 

If people cry "this is PC shit", I don't think pretending it's about Styles being a fuck awful commentator or disobeying his boss is an adequate response. It is about the comment and the other stuff is deflection.

 

If he'd flipped off Gabe and made a quip about Trump's stupid orange hair, for example, this would not be a story.

[sek69]

The 90s were 20+ years ago. We bash Cornette a lot for not being able to keep up with the times, it would be hypocritical to give Joey a pass for essentially the same thing.

 

Also Austin and Sandman were scripted to flip off their bosses, Joey was not. If anything i'd compare it to Shawn continuing to make insider comments and act like a dick after he was expressly told to knock it off by Vince during the early DX days.

[Bierschwale]

Firstly, I hate Joey Styles. He's a terrible announcer and shouldn't have been allowed to announce another match in his life after One Night Stand '05. He also seems to have no awareness of what wrestling is in 2016 with his cornball Twitter feuds where Stokely Hathaway just clowned him. Full disclosure.

 

But what he did is spit in the face of someone, in Gabe, who was seemingly doing him a favor. He was hired because Gabe wanted to show him loyalty. And Gabe gave him a TON to do since he had been hired. He went out of his way to make Joey look good. But Joey just threw it all away. He had no respect for someone who believed him to not just be an employee, but a friend, AT THE SAME TIME that the company was having its first show on a brand-new platform.

 

Joey Styles is a fucking idiot. He made his bed and now he can go fuck off to it forever.

[JerryvonKramer]

Sek69 - So pretend Styles did the exact same thing but instead just made some inane satirical political comment and then got himself canned. Do you really think you'd be seeing the same level of furore and calls for other companies not to use him etc?

 

Come on now.

 

Joey Styles is not being hauled over the coals for his incapacity to be a model employee. It is explicitly because of the joke and it's offensive content. Basically delusional if you think otherwise.

[Bierschwale]

I'm just happy to see that dipshit get fired.

[JerryvonKramer]

I have no dog in the fight and have loathed Styles for at least twenty years, everything I hate about modern commentary wrapped up in one man. He also ruined a whole season of Legends of Wrestling just by being there.

 

I just want people to be straight up about why this is a deal. It is because he talked grabbing pussies and that is seen as glorifying and making light of sexual assault.

 

If you flick back over the last few pages you'd think we'd stumbled into an employers' rights lobby or some Kafka-esque middle managers' union.

[Bierschwale]

It's way more complicated than Gabe just being his employer to me. It's about betraying a friend to get yourself over and saying something disgusting in the process.

[DMJ]

Fuck Joey Styles. Glad he got fired. Hope this ends his career.

 

No reason to feel sorry for the guy at all - he revealed himself almost 10 years ago as a guy who thinks America was better when everyone looked like him, believed in his God, and thought life began when something drips out of a dick.

 

Sadly, things could look up for him - making jokes about sexual assault, anti-Obama tweets, xenophobic rhetoric, and anti-choice views...Trump may put him in his cabinet.

[Bierschwale]

Press Secretary.

[Cobra Commander]

on the upside for Joey, he could land a job as the Director of the US Mint in January. Would give him a leg up in the land of commemorative coins,

[fxnj]

The "times change" argument doesn't work considering a week ago the USA had a vote, and the nation voted in the guy who was against making people walk on egg shells and supported free speech. Yes, compared to 20 years ago there are now more safe spaces where you can freely act outraged at the slightest things, but that doesn't make the movement to force alt-left politics into an art form that's about guys beating each other to a body pulp and which has traditionally been at the other end of the political spectrum any less ridiculous.

 

I'm not going to dispute the Evolve firing if it was a matter of Joey feeling bad for disrespecting Gabe and asking for it himself (though the SJW pile-on in spite of his apology is still horribly unnecessary). What concerns me is his firing from unrelated companies over it and much of the community cheering such a move on. Say what you want about the job Styles was doing before that, but this sets a dangerous precedent for the artistic freedom of talent. Historically, some of the greatest and most memorable moments in wrestling happened when guys went against what their boss said or what was deemed PC, like when Bret Hart decided to blade Austin at Wrestlemania or those aforementioned original DX skits. Trying to force guys to bow to the altar of political correctness lest they be instantly fired and crucified is not something I can get onboard with.

[sek69]

That argument would work better if 99% of the anti PC crowd wasn't just angry they can't be racist/sexist/whatever-ist without any consequences.

 

Gabe's supposed to let a guy who went against direction skate free lest he be seen as an enemy of free speech? Fuck outta here with that nonsense. Part of the deal with free speech is while you have the right to say whatever, others have the right to call you an asshole if you're being one.

[Phil Schneider]

Also calling Trump, a candidate who has threatened to extend the libel laws to silence media criticism as a supporter of free speech shows a pretty shocking ignorance of what free speech actually means.

[Jimmy Redman]

I just can't believe I saw someone in this thread use the term "locker room talk" unironically.

[Bix]

The "times change" argument doesn't work considering a week ago the USA had a vote, and the nation voted in the guy who was against making people walk on egg shells and supported free speech. Yes, compared to 20 years ago there are now more safe spaces where you can freely act outraged at the slightest things, but that doesn't make the movement to force alt-left politics into an art form that's about guys beating each other to a body pulp and which has traditionally been at the other end of the political spectrum any less ridiculous.

 

I'm not going to dispute the Evolve firing if it was a matter of Joey feeling bad for disrespecting Gabe and asking for it himself (though the SJW pile-on in spite of his apology is still horribly unnecessary). What concerns me is his firing from unrelated companies over it and much of the community cheering such a move on. Say what you want about the job Styles was doing before that, but this sets a dangerous precedent for the artistic freedom of talent. Historically, some of the greatest and most memorable moments in wrestling happened when guys went against what their boss said or what was deemed PC, like when Bret Hart decided to blade Austin at Wrestlemania or those aforementioned original DX skits. Trying to force guys to bow to the altar of political correctness lest they be instantly fired and crucified is not something I can get onboard with.

 

"the SJW pile-on in spite of his apology is still horribly unnecessary"

 

I guess that's for me.

 

Read the letter. It's self-serving bullshit that's all about him and he lies multiple times in it. The whole thing has zero credibility and is very obviously designed to frame him as a "good person." Plus he clearly has no idea why people were offended (even if it seems like he gets he was fired because he flagrantly disobeyed Gabe's orders and flipped him off in the process). Like it has anything to do with if he said the word "pussy" or not. It's because the "joke," which was barely ever structured as a joke, was basically "Joanna, you look super molestable tonight, and Stokely, you're comparable to female genitalia because that's hilarious and not at all insulting women as being weak a group even if you give it 30 seconds of thought." Plus it came off as bragging because his "team" won.

 

Again, it barely even had the structure of a joke. He was calling the ring announcer "rapeable," more or less.

[JerryvonKramer]

That argument would work better if 99% of the anti PC crowd wasn't just angry they can't be racist/sexist/whatever-ist without any consequences.

 

I don't think this is true. Most people want common sense to prevail rather than hysteria. And to be able to have a bit of a laugh once in a while. (Entirely separate from specifics of Styles case, which I don't care about)

 

So Heenan nor Ventura wouldn't fly today and so would get fired as soon as they made a taco joke about Santana. That's progress? Reckon Tito would have a bad word to say about either of them? Did any Mexicans suffer? We'd have been denied a lot of great moments and for what? No one gave a shit. Do you give a shit now? Just harmless little gags is all they were.

 

I'm not seeing things clearly, I guess, because my child mind in its formative years was polluted by Bugs Bunny and his hate speech. Ban that sick filth! Foghorn Leghorn and Pepe le Pew were misogynists. Elmer Fudd never once stopped to check his privilege.

 

No, what we want is Michael Cole sitting next to a neutered robot version of Jerry Lawler ... forever.

[Matt D]

There can be a middle ground.

 

For instance, there can be a middle ground between Styles going against direction being an issue AND what he said specifically being an issue, and the two of them combined being enough to get him canned.

[JerryvonKramer]

Because of Tom and Jerry, I grew up thinking black women didn't have heads.

[tim]

 

The "times change" argument doesn't work considering a week ago the USA had a vote, and the nation voted in the guy who was against making people walk on egg shells and supported free speech. Yes, compared to 20 years ago there are now more safe spaces where you can freely act outraged at the slightest things, but that doesn't make the movement to force alt-left politics into an art form that's about guys beating each other to a body pulp and which has traditionally been at the other end of the political spectrum any less ridiculous.

 

I'm not going to dispute the Evolve firing if it was a matter of Joey feeling bad for disrespecting Gabe and asking for it himself (though the SJW pile-on in spite of his apology is still horribly unnecessary). What concerns me is his firing from unrelated companies over it and much of the community cheering such a move on. Say what you want about the job Styles was doing before that, but this sets a dangerous precedent for the artistic freedom of talent. Historically, some of the greatest and most memorable moments in wrestling happened when guys went against what their boss said or what was deemed PC, like when Bret Hart decided to blade Austin at Wrestlemania or those aforementioned original DX skits. Trying to force guys to bow to the altar of political correctness lest they be instantly fired and crucified is not something I can get onboard with.

 

"the SJW pile-on in spite of his apology is still horribly unnecessary"

 

I guess that's for me.

 

Read the letter. It's self-serving bullshit that's all about him and he lies multiple times in it. The whole thing has zero credibility and is very obviously designed to frame him as a "good person." Plus he clearly has no idea why people were offended (even if it seems like he gets he was fired because he flagrantly disobeyed Gabe's orders and flipped him off in the process). Like it has anything to do with if he said the word "pussy" or not. It's because the "joke," which was barely ever structured as a joke, was basically "Joanna, you look super molestable tonight, and Stokely, you're comparable to female genitalia because that's hilarious and not at all insulting women as being weak a group even if you give it 30 seconds of thought." Plus it came off as bragging because his "team" won.

 

Again, it barely even had the structure of a joke. He was calling the ring announcer "rapeable," more or less.

 

 

The 'humor content' of the joke would be the absurdity of the President-elect having been on record making such a statement. The joke is very crude and in very poor taste but can't be read as any condoning of sexual assault.

[DMJ]

So Heenan nor Ventura wouldn't fly today and so would get fired as soon as they made a taco joke about Santana. That's progress? Reckon Tito would have a bad word to say about either of them? Did any Mexicans suffer? We'd have been denied a lot of great moments and for what? No one gave a shit.

I don't watch EVOLVE. Is Styles supposed to be an unlikeable blowhard like Heenan and Ventura were? Their casual racism was often met by incredulity by their broadcast partners. They were presented as disrespectful, small-minded heels.

 

JBL was cutting pretty darn racist promos in 05/06 if I recall. Ric Flair "stole a kiss" from Becky Lynch this year (in the words of Billy Madison, "That's assault, brotha"). We haven't been "denied" anything in my eyes, except maybe the bathroom break opportunities we used to get when Torrie Wilson was the most promoted female athlete on the roster. Thanks but no thanks on a return to that version of women's wrestling.

 

There are all sorts of TV shows and movies I love because I loved them as a kid. When I watch them now, I may catch a joke or line that I don't appreciate now (homophobic jokes are rampant in so many beloved comedies of my childhood, for example) and I'm okay with that. The past was a different time and I was a different age. I can still laugh at Caddyshack even if there's all sorts of objectifying of women in it, for example.

 

What does not tend to happen is, I see a comedy today and I say, "Man, that was pretty funny...but it sure could've used some more jokes aimed at queers." I also don't watch wrestling and say, "Corey Graves would be a better commentator if he called Kalisto a beaner more." Keep the past in the past, enjoy it for nostalgia and for what it was in its time, but move on.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I just can't believe I saw someone in this thread use the term "locker room talk" unironically.

You didn't. Other than Joey Styles.

[Bix]

 

 

 

 

The "times change" argument doesn't work considering a week ago the USA had a vote, and the nation voted in the guy who was against making people walk on egg shells and supported free speech. Yes, compared to 20 years ago there are now more safe spaces where you can freely act outraged at the slightest things, but that doesn't make the movement to force alt-left politics into an art form that's about guys beating each other to a body pulp and which has traditionally been at the other end of the political spectrum any less ridiculous.

 

I'm not going to dispute the Evolve firing if it was a matter of Joey feeling bad for disrespecting Gabe and asking for it himself (though the SJW pile-on in spite of his apology is still horribly unnecessary). What concerns me is his firing from unrelated companies over it and much of the community cheering such a move on. Say what you want about the job Styles was doing before that, but this sets a dangerous precedent for the artistic freedom of talent. Historically, some of the greatest and most memorable moments in wrestling happened when guys went against what their boss said or what was deemed PC, like when Bret Hart decided to blade Austin at Wrestlemania or those aforementioned original DX skits. Trying to force guys to bow to the altar of political correctness lest they be instantly fired and crucified is not something I can get onboard with.

"the SJW pile-on in spite of his apology is still horribly unnecessary"

 

I guess that's for me.

 

Read the letter. It's self-serving bullshit that's all about him and he lies multiple times in it. The whole thing has zero credibility and is very obviously designed to frame him as a "good person." Plus he clearly has no idea why people were offended (even if it seems like he gets he was fired because he flagrantly disobeyed Gabe's orders and flipped him off in the process). Like it has anything to do with if he said the word "pussy" or not. It's because the "joke," which was barely ever structured as a joke, was basically "Joanna, you look super molestable tonight, and Stokely, you're comparable to female genitalia because that's hilarious and not at all insulting women as being weak a group even if you give it 30 seconds of thought." Plus it came off as bragging because his "team" won.

 

Again, it barely even had the structure of a joke. He was calling the ring announcer "rapeable," more or less.

The 'humor content' of the joke would be the absurdity of the President-elect having been on record making such a statement. The joke is very crude and in very poor taste but can't be read as any condoning of sexual assault.

Did anyone say it condoned sexual assault? No. Did Styles put the onus on Rose's physical attractiveness if she were to be assaulted? Yes.

 

And again, it was barely even structured as a joke, much less one where the punchline was "lol, the next president is a sex offender, isn't that ridiculous." It had all the finesse of a 2 year-old trying to tell an adult a story.

[BrianB]

Wonder how long Jesse Ventura would have lasted on the "do not disobey boss's orders" front. Either this is about the offensiveness of the comment or it isn't. If it's simply about disobeying the boss, I expect to see people go a lot easier on Michael Cole with Vince in his ear, etc. If it's about the offensiveness of the comment and that alone, call a spade a spade.

 

I think that's a false dilemma. It's possible for it to be a combination. And it's the combination that makes the firing fair enough to me. I also bristle a bit at the suggestion from some it's gotta be about offensiveness. I'm not personally offended by the joke, but it's still way out of line for what I think are clear, obvious reasons, which Bix and others have highlighted. When someone deliberately disobeys their boss, does it in a flaunting, throw it in their face for all to see way, and not only disobeys by making a political joke, but also a joke where the punchline is that someone would get sexually assaulted bcs they're attractive...that's a confluence of a lot of bad stuff in the context of "disobeying the boss." 'm not sure it matters, but the joke didn't get over either.