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How much work and time does a great or perfect match need?


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#21 jdw

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 02:55 PM

Different match.

 

Tabe is talking about WrestleWar, which was Flair-Steamer + Flair-Funk Post Match Pile Driver:

 

http://prowrestlingo...tars/?p=5767224

 

I was talking about the Flair-Funk at the Bash, which had the Flair & Sting vs Funk & Muta + Flair Juice & Muta Spay Mic Spot as the post match. While that match was (predictably) referenced in the thread, it's not the one Tabe did the *****/* comment about.



#22 jdw

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 02:58 PM

As far as different takes, Tabe has been around forever. He can confirm that his thoughts on the WrestleWar post match aren't new. They're probably as old as Jewett being one of the first to say the WrestleWar match itself was wildly overrated, though my recollection is that Frank liked the post match for the reasons Tabe didn't.



#23 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 03:17 PM

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#24 jdw

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 04:10 PM

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#25 jdw

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 05:32 PM

I'm still kind of wondering when you're going to cop to screwing up on the Flair-Steamer and Flair-Funk matches? That's beside being confused in thinking Tabe is a newbie who suddenly decided in 2016 that he didn't like the post-match of Flair-Steamer.



#26 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 05:54 PM

I mixed the matches up. I was trying to be friendly and point you towards something that might be of interest. I forgot that it had all been worked out in 1989, sorry. Next time I'll know better.

#27 jdw

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 06:25 PM

Actually it wasn't all worked out in 1989. Jewett's criticism of the 5/89 match online was in the late 90s. Tabe probably has been talking about his thoughts on the finish for just as long, if not longer.

 

It was rather clear in the discussion that what I was referring to was after 1989 and prior to now.

 

I get that your concept of opinion is that there was only two points: Original Criticism and Whenever Parv First Watched/Read/Listened To It And Formed An Opinion. The later especially if you have a contrary opinion and try to claim originating it, even if the ground has been covered before.



#28 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 07:21 PM

You don't deserve love or happiness in your life; all your friends secretly dislike you.

#29 WingedEagle

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 07:44 AM

Would seriously rather watch you guys go than the debate next Monday.  Yours won't see me make bad jokes (but am I kidding?) to the wife about moving to Canada, and there will undoubtedly be a greater mix of substantive issues to go along with the biting personal jabs.  Never quit.



#30 jdw

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 07:23 PM

You don't deserve love or happiness in your life; all your friends secretly dislike you.

 



#31 peachchaos

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 07:57 PM

:lol:

 

I do remember thinking that it was bad acting and a botched table spot the first time I saw the Flair-Steamboat postmatch. I think once you see the rest of the Flair-Funk feud the setup retroactively becomes this great angle.

 

Terry's acting is just something I've grown to love. 



#32 elliott

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:08 PM

I would consider jdw a friend and would for the last 15+ years. I think the shit parv is allowed to get away with is ridiculous and he drags this entire board down. Say what you will about john, this place is worse because of Parv and shit like that. I mean what the fuck?

#33 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:14 PM

To get this back to the original question, I was bored today and decided to see how this time thing plays out in reality. Simply, I took a list of my best ever matches, and looked at how long they went (to the nearest minute):

 

1. 23 mins

2. 27 mins

3. 56 mins

4. 9 mins

5. 12 mins

6. 30 mins

7. 29 mins

8. 31 mins

9. 24 mins

10. 18 mins

11. 7 mins

12. 20 mins

13. 34 mins

14. 13 mins

15. 18 mins

16. 20 mins

17. 27 mins

18. 24 mins

19. 28 mins

20. 23 mins

21. 56 mins

22. 25 mins

23. 12 mins

24. 15 mins

25. 8 mins

 

<10 mins: 3

10-19 mins: 6

20-29 mins: 11

30+ mins: 5

 

I think the only interesting thing to note is the lack of matches above 34 mins, besides the two hour long ones. I assume for people who are into things like NWA Title matches and AJPW epics, theirs would skew a lot more towards the 30-45 min range. Whereas WWE epics tend to max out at the 30 min mark.

 

But of course, this is just a small sampling since there are many, many more matches I consider great, some over an hour long and some less than 2 minutes. So again, greatness takes as long as it takes.



#34 El-P

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 02:55 AM

I would consider jdw a friend and would for the last 15+ years. I think the shit parv is allowed to get away with is ridiculous and he drags this entire board down. 

 

Same thing here. At some point, you just have to draw a fucking line."You don't deserve love or happiness in your life". Seriously ?



#35 Loss

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 07:12 AM

You don't deserve love or happiness in your life; all your friends secretly dislike you.

 

If you have a response to something being said, say it, but please don't make posts like this. Let's keep it civil, or at least try harder.



#36 Microstatistics

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Posted 26 September 2016 - 11:16 PM

 

How long does a match need to go before you're comfortable calling it great or perfect?

 

As long as it needs.

 

 

Might not seem like the most useful answer but basically this. I have seen GOAT level matches that are 40+ minutes. I have seen great matches that are barely 5 minutes. It just depends.



#37 BrianB

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 11:48 AM

There's probably some exceptions. But generally, I'd say it's pretty hard to have a 4.5-5* classic match in under 10 minutes.






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