WWE TV 10/24-10/31

[sek69]

Finally able to create a topic, so here we go.

 

Per Alvarez, Vince blew a gasket at the "Goldberg Sucks" chants and pulled the plug early on the Lesnar segment. Not sure why they expected Brock to be able to get heel heat in Minneapolis of all places. God bless Paul for working his ass off trying though.

[cpst]

I'm more excited for HIAC than I thought I would be, and even more than I should be given the buildup. They have 3 matches that could each main-event a PPV, at least if they weren't in a cell. Everyone in the New Day / Cesaro & Sheamus match is going to want to show that they can hang with the top of the card, so that'll probably be a great match as well.

 

Raw had some pretty bad moments, like the Heyman promo and the Dana Brooke / Bayley segment. Dana isn't ready for the main roster, and it's not helping Bayley at all to be paired with that. Sami should be on Smackdown instead of this.

[SirEdger]

In 24 hours, we saw the polar opposites of how good or bad a segment can be.

 

On RAW, a trainwreck featuring something I never thought I'd see: Bayley getting booed. I don't even know why they bother with Dana Brooke, quite honestly. She was nowhere near ready to be in the role she is right now and she was in the right spot with Emma before Emma got injured. She could've seriously injured Bayley last week.

 

On the other end, on Smackdown Live, you have a fantastic promo from Alexa Bliss, who's becoming one of the best heels in the Women's division. She feels totally at ease with what she's doing and Becky Lynch did everything to make Alexa look like a million bucks in that promo. But generally speaking, it's painfully obvious that as opposed to Smackdown, RAW can't absolutely properly use their talent while Smackdown seems to maximize the usage of their talents almost every week.

[cpst]

On the other end, on Smackdown Live, you have a fantastic promo from Alexa Bliss, who's becoming one of the best heels in the Women's division. She feels totally at ease with what she's doing and Becky Lynch did everything to make Alexa look like a million bucks in that promo. But generally speaking, it's painfully obvious that as opposed to Smackdown, RAW can't absolutely properly use their talent while Smackdown seems to maximize the usage of their talents almost every week.

I just watched this. Such a great promo. There's something about her inflection and mockery here that really reminds me of the best aspects of Stephanie McMahon.

[cpst]

After Carmella dogging Nikki for getting her spot because of Cena, it was great to have Nikki end a match with Cena's finisher (and doing it crisper) to follow it up with Carmella coming in for the beatdown. Smackdown has been doing a pretty decent job of adding some reality into storylines without having it come off as forced or too over-the-top.

[sek69]

I loved Miz still in mourning over losing the IC title with Maryse looking like a blonde version of Lorde.

[stro]

I'd rather watch Alexa and Dana than any of the Horsewomen. All four have been badly, badly exposed on the main roster. It's really exposed what is the fundamental flaw of NXT: It doesn't prepare talent for what they'll need to do on the main roster.

 

They work in front of the same crowds, sleep in the same bed every night, get to work in the same gym every day, get to work out their matches for 2-3 months in advance with their opponent every day, get to retape everything if they mess up, do all of their promos as 30 second inserts in the back, etc. They aren't trained to be told the day of the show to go out and fill 10-15 minutes in or out of the ring. They don't have instincts to change directions when things go bad. They don't know how to speak in front of crowds. They don't know how to hold back, because all they know is going full blast for the most amount of stars they can get like they're playing the video game. The second NXT went to the Network and started doing Takeovers, it completely lost its way as an actual developmental program for WWE. And that has really shown, as the majority of call ups that weren't 10 year + vets have floundered hard.

 

Keep people in NXT for years to learn the WWE style, but don't actually teach them the WWE TV style, then wonder why they don't catch on like you'd hoped for.

[Codysseus]

I'd rather watch Alexa and Dana than any of the Horsewomen. All four have been badly, badly exposed on the main roster. It's really exposed what is the fundamental flaw of NXT: It doesn't prepare talent for what they'll need to do on the main roster.

 

They work in front of the same crowds, sleep in the same bed every night, get to work in the same gym every day, get to work out their matches for 2-3 months in advance with their opponent every day, get to retape everything if they mess up, do all of their promos as 30 second inserts in the back, etc. They aren't trained to be told the day of the show to go out and fill 10-15 minutes in or out of the ring. They don't have instincts to change directions when things go bad. They don't know how to speak in front of crowds. They don't know how to hold back, because all they know is going full blast for the most amount of stars they can get like they're playing the video game. The second NXT went to the Network and started doing Takeovers, it completely lost its way as an actual developmental program for WWE. And that has really shown, as the majority of call ups that weren't 10 year + vets have floundered hard.

 

Keep people in NXT for years to learn the WWE style, but don't actually teach them the WWE TV style, then wonder why they don't catch on like you'd hoped for.

 

I could see the argument for Sasha being exposed - but don't really see it for the other three. Charlotte's clearly improved since NXT. Bayley hasn't really had a chance to do anything yet. How has Becky been exposed, in your eyes? She's one of the best workers in the company, in my opinion.

[stro]

 

I'd rather watch Alexa and Dana than any of the Horsewomen. All four have been badly, badly exposed on the main roster. It's really exposed what is the fundamental flaw of NXT: It doesn't prepare talent for what they'll need to do on the main roster.

 

They work in front of the same crowds, sleep in the same bed every night, get to work in the same gym every day, get to work out their matches for 2-3 months in advance with their opponent every day, get to retape everything if they mess up, do all of their promos as 30 second inserts in the back, etc. They aren't trained to be told the day of the show to go out and fill 10-15 minutes in or out of the ring. They don't have instincts to change directions when things go bad. They don't know how to speak in front of crowds. They don't know how to hold back, because all they know is going full blast for the most amount of stars they can get like they're playing the video game. The second NXT went to the Network and started doing Takeovers, it completely lost its way as an actual developmental program for WWE. And that has really shown, as the majority of call ups that weren't 10 year + vets have floundered hard.

 

Keep people in NXT for years to learn the WWE style, but don't actually teach them the WWE TV style, then wonder why they don't catch on like you'd hoped for.

I could see the argument for Sasha being exposed - but don't really see it for the other three. Charlotte's clearly improved since NXT. Bayley hasn't really had a chance to do anything yet. How has Becky been exposed, in your eyes? She's one of the best workers in the company, in my opinion.

 

 

All four have been so sloppy. None can cut decent promos (although Charlotte comes close sometimes, only to kill it with her weird inflection and modulation choices). Charlotte has more poise than she did in NXT, but in the ring has regressed. Very often gets totally lost in her spots and has no idea how to improv around it. Sasha can't go more than 2 weeks without almost breaking her neck. Becky looks awkward more often than not, and that STRAIGHT FIYAAHHH and crossbow stuff is just...weird. I can't name any quality matches she's had on the main roster. She was just finding her groove in NXT when she got called up and I don't think she's ever recovered from it. Bayley was obviously a step down from those 3 to begin with, so her fall from grace hasn't been as pronounced, but she's just kind of there. There's nothing about her on the main roster that makes you want to care about her, even outside of a writing perspective.

 

Sasha is the real tragedy. In 2014-2015, I think it could be argued she was in the top 2-3 people on either roster, if not the best overall performer in the company. If you're only exposure to her was from Raw and PPVs, you'd have no idea why there was any hype about her. She's an absolute mess in the ring, and about as bad as anyone at promos. It seems like all any of the 4 were trained to do is hit their big spots and know when to pose for a commercial break.

[Fando]

Becky's punches when she was brawling down with Alexa looked fuckin great

 

https://twitter.com/BulletClubItal/status/791075089211125760

[sek69]

WWE has zero clue how to properly book a proper white meat babyface anymore, so people like Bayley and Sami Zayn were pretty much doomed from the start. The only saving grace is that Bayley has way more charisma than any of the women so she may just well succeed in spite of the company's best efforts.

[Gutenberger]

I gotta say with Ellsworth, The Spirit Squad and all of Wyatt's shenanigans, SD surely is the more corny and cheesy looking show, which is not a bad thing, don't get me wrong.

 

But I just can't get over the fact that I just watched the Spirit Squad in a title match in 2016. . .

[cpst]

Sasha is the real tragedy. In 2014-2015, I think it could be argued she was in the top 2-3 people on either roster, if not the best overall performer in the company. If you're only exposure to her was from Raw and PPVs, you'd have no idea why there was any hype about her. She's an absolute mess in the ring, and about as bad as anyone at promos. It seems like all any of the 4 were trained to do is hit their big spots and know when to pose for a commercial break.

I don't know if Sasha has really changed as much as people think. She had a small number of great matches per year, and she still does. She was botching overambitious spots and taking time off for injuries back then too; it just wasn't as noticeable due to the NXT schedule. In NXT her character better matched her strengths, probably because they did some practice promos, determined her range as a performer, and booked her accordingly. She could probably still cut a good heel promo, just like she did in NXT, but they made her a face and she's bad at that.

 

It's unfortunate that her career will probably be cut short. She has enthusiasm and ambition but can't take the punishment she puts on her body. She weighs as much as joshi wrestlers that are half a foot shorter than her, and they're not working the WWE house show schedule on top of the high-impact matches.

[cpst]

I gotta say with Ellsworth, The Spirit Squad and all of Wyatt's shenanigans, SD surely is the more corny and cheesy looking show, which is not a bad thing, don't get me wrong.

 

But I just can't get over the fact that I just watched the Spirit Squad in a title match in 2016. . .

Ellsworth was good for a while, but they're probably going to screw themselves and ride the dead horse through a ghost town in the middle of a nuclear winter. At the end of the day I don't mind a bit of Wyatt magic BS if the rest of the show is a good wrestling show. The big problems with Raw are more pervasive and can't be avoided by just skipping segments.

[cpst]

Daniel Bryan's comments on Talking Smack about HIAC (around 8:00 on the Network video) are hilarious.

[Microstatistics]

The only problem with Banks, IMO, is that she is reckless. Working a slightly safer/toned down style would seriously help her in the long run. Other than that I still think she is one of the top workers in the company. Also think she is a really good babyface in the ring. I don't care about promo ability or botchy execution so maybe that's why the flaws people have pointed out don't bother me.

[sek69]

Not to defend Sasha, but it seems odd her sloppiness gets called out and it seems Charlotte largely gets a pass. She's a much better promo normally, and her current Queen gimmick has been a standout in a division where they all seem like interchangeable parts, but her matches tend to be more clunky than not. Part of it is her being so much taller than everyone else it looks like her opponents are trying to wrestle a daddy long-legs.

[stro]

Not to defend Sasha, but it seems odd her sloppiness gets called out and it seems Charlotte largely gets a pass. She's a much better promo normally, and her current Queen gimmick has been a standout in a division where they all seem like interchangeable parts, but her matches tend to be more clunky than not. Part of it is her being so much taller than everyone else it looks like her opponents are trying to wrestle a daddy long-legs.

I mean...I just did. But the main difference in their sloppiness is you don't have to worry that Charlotte is going to end up dead after a spot. It's usually just getting lost and not knowing what to do. Except when she and Sasha are together, then you never know what's going to happen.

 

this spot happens

 

Then they went for this

 

 

and I've never been so tense and wondering why the fuck anyone approved this spot.

[Jimmy Redman]

*Charlotte drops Sasha on her head and nearly kills her*

"Fuck Sasha is sloppy!"

 

?

[stro]

That's not what my post was about, but okay. My point was Charlotte doesn't get as much guff about her sloppiness because she usually isn't doing anything to hurt herself or others. Except when she's in matches with Sasha, where both are going to be trying stuff they shouldn't be trying and you never know which one of them is going to die.

[Jimmy Redman]

I agree that Charlotte looks less likely to hurt herself, but she's not really any less likely to hurt someone else than Sasha. In fact since Charlotte often uses her size and power to hurl girls around in a really reckless manner, while Sasha doesn't really do anything to endanger anyone but herself, I'd argue that she's much more likely to hurt another girl than Sasha is.

[cpst]

I feel bad for enjoying these clips of Total Bellas on YouTube:

 

[Johnny Sorrow]

So they were either totally ribbing Heyman by telling him to go out there and try to get that crowd to cheer Goldberg or Vince and Paul made a bet and Paul lost. Cause I'm not buying this whole "Vince got mad cause he thought they'd boo Brock" story. Come on.

Either way, Heyman was pissed off. 😄

[hammerva]

Another thing from Alvarez (taking it with grains and grains of salt) is that Kevin Dunn hates Becky Lynch's accent and will make her talk less and less because of it. If that is true then why the hell would you bring her up. You can't Americanize that kind of accent. She doesn't fit the mold to make her like Tamina or Nia Jax.

 

Also if that is true, then lets make sure that Nakamura and Asuka goes to Smackdown.

[SteveJRogers]

Another thing from Alvarez (taking it with grains and grains of salt) is that Kevin Dunn hates Becky Lynch's accent and will make her talk less and less because of it. If that is true then why the hell would you bring her up. You can't Americanize that kind of accent. She doesn't fit the mold to make her like Tamina or Nia Jax.

 

Also if that is true, then lets make sure that Nakamura and Asuka goes to Smackdown.

 

Sheamus, Barrett, Regal, Paige, DBS, Finley, etc

 

How many Western Europeans have been good talkers on Dunn's watch? And all of a sudden one Irish chick comes in and he hates it?

 

Yeah, I'd buy it if there were more examples of Irish, Scottish, Welsh, British, Cockney, etc wrestlers all of a sudden being the "silent but violent" types.