Strummer Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 of course Sid Vicious was going to win the title from Vader before the scissors incident with Arn. But what was the original plan for Flair? Looking back at WCW TV they seemed to be building to a match with Austin. Was that the direction? Then who does Dustin work? I can't imagine Sid being champion for long. They could have given him a run until Hogan came in and built that up but just doesn't sound like the hardcore WCW fans would have backed that. Just strange to think Sid would have been the center of any promotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbenn123 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 If I recall, according to the Observer, Flair was going to tag with Steamboat to take on the Nastys (instead of Sting and Hawk). I guess that would have been a continuation of the Missy Hyatt vs Flair thing from earlier in the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 10/18 WON: "12/27 Starrcade from the old Charlotte Coliseum (now called Independence Arena) looks to be Vader vs. Vicious, Sting vs. Rude and Nasty Boys defending against Flair & Steamboat and Anderson vs. Roma." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 wonder how much of Sid as champion was filmed for the Disney tapings. Also, how much scrapped taping footage did WCW keep in their archives, or did they just erase it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 IIRC they would have guys announced as champion at those tapings but not holding the belts if they hadn't won them yet, so if plans changed (or shit happened) they would just redo the commentary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 10/18 WON: "12/27 Starrcade from the old Charlotte Coliseum (now called Independence Arena) looks to be Vader vs. Vicious, Sting vs. Rude and Nasty Boys defending against Flair & Steamboat and Anderson vs. Roma." I'm watching the Clashes and PPVs from this time, and obviously no mentioning of a Horsemen split. When Arn came back, was there any interaction with the two former Horsemen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonlake Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Surely they'd have been better off just having Flair feud with Steamboat, and maybe having the Nasty Boys work on the merchandise stand or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 of course Sid Vicious was going to win the title from Vader before the scissors incident with Arn. But what was the original plan for Flair? Looking back at WCW TV they seemed to be building to a match with Austin. Was that the direction? Then who does Dustin work? I can't imagine Sid being champion for long. They could have given him a run until Hogan came in and built that up but just doesn't sound like the hardcore WCW fans would have backed that. Just strange to think Sid would have been the center of any promotion It's strange for you to think this guy: was the center of any promotion? How do you have a guy who looks like Sid and NOT push him as high as you possibly can on the card? A dude who got super over both in 1989 JCP/WCW and got notoriously smarky MSG to turn on who had been considered one of if not the best worker in the US of the 1990s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 I'm guessing Sid was going to be a transitional champ back to Flair sooner than later, maybe with the longterm idea of building towards Flair/Vader anyway. I'm not a Sid hater at all, but I can understand what Strummer is saying. There's all sorts of knocks against the guy that would make putting him at the top of a promotion, even at the peak of his career, a questionable decision for more than a month or two (which is kinda how his career turned out). He was always over and had a great look - but he was not a great worker, his character was always more over than his feuds (because even his best matches were just tolerable), and he didn't fit the mold as a true longterm main event guy in 90s WCW (where one was expected to be able to put on good matches) or 90s WWF (where one was expected to be a sympathetic/superhero babyface - a role Sid never fit because he was always more of a untethered tweener). Plus, Sid kind of had a knack for bad timing. Reading through his Wikipedia page, there's some unfortunate injuries at important times, a failed drug test according to Meltzer before WM8, and the softball stuff. With Sid, I think you have a guy who actually got pushed and utilized quite well, all things considered. I don't see his story as "What could've been..." the way one might for a Magnum TA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 I think the plan was Sid would go on to face Rude to unify the two World titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye12 Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 wonder how much of Sid as champion was filmed for the Disney tapings. Also, how much scrapped taping footage did WCW keep in their archives, or did they just erase it. There wasn't any, that's just a myth. They didn't even do the post-Starrcade (and actually a couple weeks pre-Starrcade) Disney tapings until November 12th, two weeks after the stabbing incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 It's strange for you to think this guy: was the center of any promotion? How do you have a guy who looks like Sid and NOT push him as high as you possibly can on the card? A dude who got super over both in 1989 JCP/WCW and got notoriously smarky MSG to turn on who had been considered one of if not the best worker in the US of the 1990s. Today Sid is ironically liked in an MST3K kind of way, or considered one of the worst wrestlers to ever get mega pushes. There is a podcast dedicated to bad wrestling of the 1990s, and they just attempted to do a Sid match marathon. I guess your Sid comparasion is akin to JvK's constant wondering how Chief Jay Strongbow is remembered fondly by fand s of the time and given strong pushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted November 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 I always liked Sid growing up but the thought at the time was that he was an underachiever in terms of star power. PWI used to kayfabe criticize him on this all the time. Like DMJ said it would have been strange to see him as champion and center of a promotion at this time because he didn't fit the bill. Even in 96/97 his world title reigns were short lived and after he beat Shawn house show business started to tank. Just the way WCW was at the time I can't see him being champion past Feb/March 94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 I always liked Sid growing up but the thought at the time was that he was an underachiever in terms of star power. PWI used to kayfabe criticize him on this all the time. Like DMJ said it would have been strange to see him as champion and center of a promotion at this time because he didn't fit the bill. Even in 96/97 his world title reigns were short lived and after he beat Shawn house show business started to tank. Just the way WCW was at the time I can' see him being champion past Feb/March 94 Not to mention, Flair had to be positioned as the champ Hogan would beat in his debut. Sure you could turn Sid heel, but I'd imagine Bischoff's ego wouldn't have let him play the long game if he didn't have a chance to do right away that the WWF never did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 It's strange for you to think this guy: was the center of any promotion? How do you have a guy who looks like Sid and NOT push him as high as you possibly can on the card? A dude who got super over both in 1989 JCP/WCW and got notoriously smarky MSG to turn on who had been considered one of if not the best worker in the US of the 1990s. Today Sid is ironically liked in an MST3K kind of way, or considered one of the worst wrestlers to ever get mega pushes. There is a podcast dedicated to bad wrestling of the 1990s, and they just attempted to do a Sid match marathon. I guess your Sid comparasion is akin to JvK's constant wondering how Chief Jay Strongbow is remembered fondly by fand s of the time and given strong pushes. Sid wasn't ironically liked during his time. He was over. Everywhere. At times super over. With his look and weird charisma, it was a no brainer to push him to the top your cards. You don't have a guy like Sid and have him toiling away in the mid card for years. Of course he wasn't a great worker, but when has that ever been the most important thing about getting a push in America? As part of the Skyscrapers and Horsemen, got SID SID SID chants a month into his JCP/WCW run. Went to WWE and was instantly more over than Hogan (who, granted, was on the decline, but still). Went back to WCW, got cheered over Sid. Went back to WWF in 1996, turned MSG into a bunch of screaming marks for a muscled up stiff who "can't work" over who was considered to be probably the best worker of the 90s in HBK in the smark capital of of the world. Went back to WCW, was the most over guy in the company besides Goldberg. That's not ironic. It's not ironic to understand why he kept getting the main event pushes in his career. Him being a flake was his biggest detriment, not his lack of ring skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 It's strange for you to think this guy: was the center of any promotion? How do you have a guy who looks like Sid and NOT push him as high as you possibly can on the card? A dude who got super over both in 1989 JCP/WCW and got notoriously smarky MSG to turn on who had been considered one of if not the best worker in the US of the 1990s. Today Sid is ironically liked in an MST3K kind of way, or considered one of the worst wrestlers to ever get mega pushes. There is a podcast dedicated to bad wrestling of the 1990s, and they just attempted to do a Sid match marathon. I guess your Sid comparasion is akin to JvK's constant wondering how Chief Jay Strongbow is remembered fondly by fand s of the time and given strong pushes. Sid wasn't ironically liked during his time. He was over. Everywhere. At times super over. With his look and weird charisma, it was a no brainer to push him to the top your cards. You don't have a guy like Sid and have him toiling away in the mid card for years. Of course he wasn't a great worker, but when has that ever been the most important thing about getting a push in America? As part of the Skyscrapers and Horsemen, got SID SID SID chants a month into his JCP/WCW run. Went to WWE and was instantly more over than Hogan (who, granted, was on the decline, but still). Went back to WCW, got cheered over Sid. Went back to WWF in 1996, turned MSG into a bunch of screaming marks for a muscled up stiff who "can't work" over who was considered to be probably the best worker of the 90s in HBK in the smark capital of of the world. Went back to WCW, was the most over guy in the company besides Goldberg. That's not ironic. It's not ironic to understand why he kept getting the main event pushes in his career. Him being a flake was his biggest detriment, not his lack of ring skill. Not to mention how batshit crazy people went for him in ECW. But "weird charisma" also gets at why he was hard to book on top for a long period of time. He was not a great promo, which made it hard to build heated feuds. He couldn't really get across well his motivation - did he want a belt? To hurt people? To get revenge? He had something people responded to, but it was difficult to translate into an ongoing story. He was probably also hurt by the frequent turns (a WCW trademark, although it happened in the WWF with him too). He could have been a Goldberg-esque babyface killer and made some money that way, but everyone seemed to think he could also be used as a heel monster for babyfaces to slay. But he was a bad heel worker, even by big guy standards. With the reps, he might have been decent working a Hogan-style babyface match, but he never did that for an extended period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 It's easy to look back at stuff with smart hindsight. Sometimes you need to be there to "get it", or be able to put aside preconceived notions to understand context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 19, 2016 Report Share Posted November 19, 2016 Sid was pretty much custom made for the time period he was in. Tall, built, charismatic, with a hint of "this guy might be legit crazy". Sure, he sucked in the ring, but that didn't matter for much of his time in the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southofheavy Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 Sid should've gone the Brody/Abby/Terry Funk route. Come into a territory/promotion, run a few angles, make money, then hit the bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin' Brian Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 Can I get the name of this podcast? There is a podcast dedicated to bad wrestling of the 1990s, and they just attempted to do a Sid match marathon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted November 20, 2016 Report Share Posted November 20, 2016 Can I get the name of this podcast? There is a podcast dedicated to bad wrestling of the 1990s, and they just attempted to do a Sid match marathon. Technically its What A Maneuver, but its listed as a bonus episode, and I'm thinking its more akin to their Bowling Shoe Ugly "spinoff" where one of the WAM hosts shows a lapsed fan friend of his the shit that he missed during his time not watching wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted November 21, 2016 Report Share Posted November 21, 2016 Im guessing Sid possibly would have dropped the belt to Flair at Superbrawl 4. I dont know how true this is as was listing to a Superbrawl 4 Review show and the host claimed that Flair was supposed to drop the title to Vader at Superbrawl 4 but Ric got booking power the same day and thus changed the finish. If it is true then possibly they could have gone with Flair beating Sid in February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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