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A Perfect Style


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#1 GOTNW

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Posted 17 November 2016 - 12:52 PM

Please don't respond to this by answering "I like 1993 All Japan it's so great". That's for a different discussion. Surely there must be a thread for your favourite promotion/style/era or however we'd define that.

 

Basically, if you were to build a style from the ground up in a way you think would most efficiently use everything that makes wrestling exciting and cut out everything that allows workers to enter black holes of cliches and stupidity. Just bringing up some ideas that haven't been used often or altogether is more than enough for starters.

 

 

 

I'm not going to pull a Parv and turn this thread into a case for why shoot style is the best, instead just mention a couple of ideas I've had. Maybe rolling has something to do with it but recently I came to conclusion that one of the most underused aspects of wrestlings are pins themselves. Because more choreographed styles use them in a certain way and (quasi& proper) shoot style got rid of them altogether (and when they used them they were limited to just counting pins after bridging suplexes) I'm not sure there's ever been a style in which wrestlers used realistic fighting for positioning, control etc. to try and just *pin* their opponent. And kicking out would leave the defending wrestler open for easier submissions, guard passes and so on.



#2 Bierschwale

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 12:40 AM

That immediately makes me think of the JWP matches with two-count/one-count pins, which I think are awesome. I've come up with some half-baked ideas around that idea just because I agree, it makes things more important when there's that much more "risk".



#3 dawho5

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 04:49 PM

I would agree that yes, you could make a case for shootstyle with pins involved for just the reasons mentioned.  You force your opponent to leave openings for you by kicking out.  So early attempts at pinfalls become more a strategy against an opponent who is countering your attempts to improve your position well instead of just something to do to kill time.  It would also place emphasis on the different ways a wrestler can get out of a pinfall attempt, i.e. which shoulder they choose to roll, which direction they kick themselves up, in an effort to protect against a pass or an attack on a wounded body part.

 

I also think that effective use of strikes and selling of strikes, both initially and progressively can make a big difference in a match.



#4 Johnny Sorrow

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:44 AM

The best style is whatever makes money and excites the crowd.



#5 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:05 AM

Some examples of the "perfect style":

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#6 Superstar Sleeze

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 05:45 PM

I feel like Parv just won post of the year.

 

I am not going to say its perfect, but I think cool new style would be one that is focused on urgency and winning the match from the outset. I think matches should be sub-ten minutes and should be sprints. Only matches championship implications should go longer. Bringing back time limits of ten or fifteen minutes would create that sense of urgency. Booking would be greatly helped with more draws and less clean finishes. Then an hour time limit for wrestlers allow them to take their time. I think New Japan has it right with grappling at the base for the opening minutes, but more heated and the conclusion from that grappling should be an exciting transition. This transition should be the hook of the match. Putting one wrestler in a hole that he needs to comeback from. Momentum shifts need to be respected more. Everything needs a purpose. I am so sick of Rollins kick to gut, lazily hooks arms for a Pedigree but no effort at all and just gets backdropped. It is friggin' horrible. Mean it! Force your opponent to back drop you. The perfect style is that everything from the sound of the bell is earned.



#7 joeg

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:52 PM

The best style is whatever makes money and excites the crowd.

 

This. However I'm not always sure what draws money is what excites the crowd. There is a long history in wrestling of the exciting match on a card not being the match that was drawing the money. And usually those matches are usually completely different styles.



#8 overbooked

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 03:56 AM

I would want to build up a style where people genuinely care who wins and loses, where they love some wrestlers and hate others, and if only for short while start to believe again.

 

This doesn't mean a load of horrible shoot angles, more just reasserting kayfabe in a subtle way. It is no good saying "This is real!" as that just draws attention to the fact that it isn't. Instead, I'd want the workers to generally keep quiet outside of the bubble of pro wrestling. The announcers just need to play things straight - call what is front of them, know when to raise the excitement and when to keep quiet.

 

I think creativity perversely benefits from limitations. I also think pro wrestling needs a coherent and consistent internal logic. So, I'd focus on a one hour TV show, maybe a new take on studio wrestling. Three matches, three promos. Ten minute time limits for TV matches, first two matches on the show to build people up, the last match almost always the Television Champion defending the title.

 

Promos are important - there needs to be workers who can talk, and talk naturally and without a script. If they can't, then they need a manager who can. The promos should be short, snappy, memorable. This is all about showcasing characters people care about. Fairly obvious stuff, but it needs to be done well.

 

There would be a world champion, but he would only wrestle house shows and do the odd TV promo. The titles are the focus and any feud or angle is ultimately linked to a title, or working up the rankings to get a title shot.

 

There needs to be a hierarchy of wrestlers. The young guys at the bottom, who lose more than they win, but are presented as having plenty of talent, but needing more experience. The grizzled veterans of the midcard, who know how to snatch a win and are looking for one last shot at glory. The main eventers who are presented as the best sportsmen, the biggest characters.

 

Ideally the TV champion is a heel who does more to avoid losing than trying to win, using that time limit to his advantage. The world champion is a face, and carries himself as an ambassador for the sport.

 

There would be a commissioner, but none of the tired heel owner stuff. Instead, a legendary worker who acts as conscience for the promotion, maintains order (and the internal logic) and stops fans getting too disillusioned when the heels are on top, as there is at least someone out there looking out for honesty and truth and all that stuff.

 

In terms of the in-ring product...

 

Make every move count. Anything the wrestlers do in the ring should serve the overall story they are telling. And ideally less is more. Wrestling should feel competitive, not two guys taking turns to execute a series of moves. Keeping it simple will make the big spots matter more, and will also mean fewer injuries, so more opportunities to make more money with more wrestlers.

 

More bullshit. I think the true heart of pro wrestling is bullshit. Stalling, bailing out, begging off, jawing at the crowd, little sneaky cheating. All generate an emotional reaction. All make you hate one guy and love the other. Great wrestling incorporates delayed gratification. A move means a whole lot more if it has been teased for the whole match. You only get the thrill of the chase if you have to wait for the guy to get caught.

 

Avoiding too many clean finishes. Make the most of time limit draws. Have cheaters more readily disqualified. Let the heels scamper off to the locker room for a countout victory once in a while. Create more uncertainty over how the match will end. Make clean finishes matter.



#9 JerryvonKramer

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 04:14 AM

Co-sign all of the above. Every last word.

#10 concrete1992

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 09:00 AM

I feel like Parv just won post of the year.

 

I am not going to say its perfect, but I think cool new style would be one that is focused on urgency and winning the match from the outset. I think matches should be sub-ten minutes and should be sprints. Only matches championship implications should go longer. Bringing back time limits of ten or fifteen minutes would create that sense of urgency. Booking would be greatly helped with more draws and less clean finishes. Then an hour time limit for wrestlers allow them to take their time. I think New Japan has it right with grappling at the base for the opening minutes, but more heated and the conclusion from that grappling should be an exciting transition. This transition should be the hook of the match. Putting one wrestler in a hole that he needs to comeback from. Momentum shifts need to be respected more. Everything needs a purpose. I am so sick of Rollins kick to gut, lazily hooks arms for a Pedigree but no effort at all and just gets backdropped. It is friggin' horrible. Mean it! Force your opponent to back drop you. The perfect style is that everything from the sound of the bell is earned.

I agree with the first five sentences then this thing hops off a cliff for me ;) Mostly because New Japan is a trigger.

 

I agree with a lot of the other stuff in spirit. This thread makes me wish a full relaunch of BatBat could happen.



#11 Bierschwale

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 11:01 PM

If he means Saku-Shibata as "New Japan", I agree. Okada-Tana as "New Japan"? Big nope.



#12 dawho5

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 05:42 PM

When is overbooked getting his backing?  I'm looking forward to that promotion. :)






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