Loss Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I think the litmus test is for "gigantic success story" is, "Can he do a match with Brock Lesnar where the outcome is in doubt?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 It does say a lot, for example, that despite giving him two wins over John Cena and making him champion, AJ Styles is not as over as he was when he first came in. There are some things, sure, but it's not like there's a mountain of things I could point to in the way he's used and say this is why that's the case. And he's still very much a star and very much over, so he's far from a failure. But he's not quite a gigantic success story either. I don't really know what this means. He debuted in the company at the end of January and now he's THE top guy on Smackdown and has been pretty much since the brand split. If people were expecting him to suddenly become a Rock or Austin I don't know what to tell them because that was really never in the cards. He's not that good of a promo or that charismatic. It's also a bit silly to compare the pops he was getting earlier in the year to his reactions now because he's a heel now and he was a babyface then. If you want to compare heels, does he get as strong of a reaction as Charlotte or Reigns? Styles is a star. His run has been a success. It hasn't been transformative. Maybe it wasn't going to be. But he was more over the night he debuted than he is right this second. That was my primary point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 It was a Rumble surprise pop in front of the 2nd most hardcore audience WWE has all year (only behind Mania.) The pop was just as much "holy shit this is unexpected" as it was for AJ Styles himself. You can't read too much into it although god knows it doesn't stop people from saying "Look Kevin Nash/Boogeyman/DDP is more over than 90% of the roster!" whenever there is a surprise Rumble entrant. He's not LESS over than he was on his debut because now he's known by the entire WWE audience which I think you'd have to REALLY stretch things to say was true at the Royal Rumble. He's definitely more over now than he was on the next few weeks of WWE TV following the Rumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I wonder if being bogged down in this seemingly never-ending Dean Ambrose/James Ellsworth mess isn't hurting Styles, as well. I was hoping he would be on to a fresh new angle/opponent by now, instead of still piddling around with this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 The Miz continues to be excellent. I loved him coming out for the post PPV Miz TV segment and asking the crowd "no "You Deserve It" chants?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I wonder if being bogged down in this seemingly never-ending Dean Ambrose/James Ellsworth mess isn't hurting Styles, as well. I was hoping he would be on to a fresh new angle/opponent by now, instead of still piddling around with this mess. I don't know where the fresh opponent is on Smackdown though. Unless they wheel out Taker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 I wonder if being bogged down in this seemingly never-ending Dean Ambrose/James Ellsworth mess isn't hurting Styles, as well. I was hoping he would be on to a fresh new angle/opponent by now, instead of still piddling around with this mess. I don't know where the fresh opponent is on Smackdown though. Unless they wheel out Taker. I was talking to a friend about this the other day. What's so odd to me about the NXT call-ups this year has been that they've called up guys like Tyler Breeze and Apollo Crews and TJP - guys that may have been "ready" in terms of technical ability but certainly weren't ready to get over - and kept the Samoa Joes, Nakamuras, Austin Aries, Roodes down in Florida when these are the names of guys you could have had as your potential "fresh new opponent" had they been brought up 6 months ago. Love them or hate them, you have guys in NXT with established characters and decent-sized built-in fan bases that can freshen up your show tomorrow and they're not getting younger. Ditto for the tag scene. American Alpha get called up despite not really hitting their peak in NXT yet while The Revival and #DIY (hate that name, tho) are much more polished acts. Its not quite the same situation, but look at the difference between American Alpha and Enzo & Cass and its really clear - one team had "peaked" in NXT and was ready for a bigger stage, the other needed a few more minutes in the oven. (Yeah, I know, mixed metaphor, sue me) Also, as much as I like the Zayn/Strowman storyline and even some of the Cesaro/Sheamus pairing, its worth noting that not having Zayn or Cesaro get drafted to the Blue Brand (seemingly out of spite because so many people had predicted one or both to get drafted) showed minimal foresight too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Trump named Linda McMahon the head of his Small Business Administration for his cabinet. I know she's not affiliated with WWE anymore but I can't see them doing anything controversial, especially involving Steph, Shane or Vince that might make her look the slightest bit bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Trump named Linda McMahon the head of his Small Business Administration for his cabinet. I know she's not affiliated with WWE anymore but I can't see them doing anything controversial, especially involving Steph, Shane or Vince that might make her look the slightest bit bad Like classifying employees as independent contractors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 7, 2016 Report Share Posted December 7, 2016 Every Trump nominee facing more scrutiny than normal (does anyone even know who the current head of the SBA is?) doesn't bode well for WWE and their usual MO of their business practices sliding under the radar because "it's just that fake rasslin stuff". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 My issue with AJ Styles is my same issue that I have with Kevin Owens: I say to myself "OK, you're a great wrestler, but then what?" This is the disconnect that I constantly have with WWE and it's a big reason why I'm a fan of guys like Rusev & Sheamus more. I need more than just bell-to-bell good matches. You need to make me want to care about the outcome of your match or invest in your character. AJ Styles is fantastic in-ring and I want to watch him because he's so athletically gifted but I don't care if he wins or loses. I don't care if he has a title or not. And when he has a microphone, I'm not invested in the words that come out of his mouth. He's just kinda there. Just like Dean Ambrose only better in the ring. The stories don't draw me in, which isn't even on the wrestlers themselves. But I have Styles in higher regard than others on the roster because he often makes me just say "wow" or "holy shit." How many people can do a Springboard 450 to the floor through a table? That's an INSANE spot. AJ Styles in NJPW worked for me. AJ Styles in WWE does not because the way the show is - it's not just about the in ring. Certainly some of it is overexposure. Maybe even most of it is that. WWE just feels tired & stagnant. They don't need to switch up the roster, they need to switch up the format. We need some chaos, some unexpectability (is that a word?) in the shows. Like, current WWE, I watch it like it's a basketball game or something. Part of the appeal of pro-wrestling for me was always how it has felt different than sports. Now it feels like we're just watching guys showing off their best stunts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I wonder if being bogged down in this seemingly never-ending Dean Ambrose/James Ellsworth mess isn't hurting Styles, as well. I was hoping he would be on to a fresh new angle/opponent by now, instead of still piddling around with this mess. Hmmm... this shit is awesome, what are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I wonder if being bogged down in this seemingly never-ending Dean Ambrose/James Ellsworth mess isn't hurting Styles, as well. I was hoping he would be on to a fresh new angle/opponent by now, instead of still piddling around with this mess. Hmmm... this shit is awesome, what are you talking about? It ran its course a while ago. Styles seemed to make some silly comedy out of it last night, but beyond that there's nothing you can do with Ellsworth at this point. Well past the sell by date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Every Trump nominee facing more scrutiny than normal (does anyone even know who the current head of the SBA is?) doesn't bode well for WWE and their usual MO of their business practices sliding under the radar because "it's just that fake rasslin stuff". Trump is putting legitimate white supremacists who compare themselves to Darth Vader and Satan on his team with little to no blowback or resistance. I think Linda and WWE a re going to be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I wonder if being bogged down in this seemingly never-ending Dean Ambrose/James Ellsworth mess isn't hurting Styles, as well. I was hoping he would be on to a fresh new angle/opponent by now, instead of still piddling around with this mess.Hmmm... this shit is awesome, what are you talking about? It ran its course a while ago. Styles seemed to make some silly comedy out of it last night, but beyond that there's nothing you can do with Ellsworth at this point. Well past the sell by date. Exactly. Even if you are easily entertained and found this angle amusing at it's onset, it has been ridden well past the point where it's still fresh or has anything to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 AJ has been tremendous on the stick. His character work has been fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 Edit: stupid phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted December 8, 2016 Report Share Posted December 8, 2016 I wonder if being bogged down in this seemingly never-ending Dean Ambrose/James Ellsworth mess isn't hurting Styles, as well. I was hoping he would be on to a fresh new angle/opponent by now, instead of still piddling around with this mess.Hmmm... this shit is awesome, what are you talking about? It ran its course a while ago. Styles seemed to make some silly comedy out of it last night, but beyond that there's nothing you can do with Ellsworth at this point. Well past the sell by date. Exactly. Even if you are easily entertained and found this angle amusing at it's onset, it has been ridden well past the point where it's still fresh or has anything to offer. AJ hasn't beaten Ellsworth yet, so it hasn't ran it's course. Ellsworth is still over. Dean gets to destroy Ellsworth. So much left in this tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 but it's all based about jobber Ellsworth wrestling matches. Who cares to watch that? It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 but it's all based about jobber Ellsworth wrestling matches. Who cares to watch that? It's ridiculous. Lots of people, because he's freaking getting giant reactions and selling a lot of merch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I just watched RAW. Charlotte is the fucking best. The fact that some people still go on about her not being awesome because of what she was like as a face a year ago is such an example of weird dummies not being able to let go of shit. And, yeah, that's a thing out there amongst some "fans". Some stunted dopes just can't evolve past initial impressions . It's insane. It's like saying "I can't stand Leonardo DiCaprio. He was terrible on Growing Pains". 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpst Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Charlotte/Sasha is far from being over, but are they going to mix it up? Apparently, no. I'm sure the Ironman match will be good, but they really need to build somebody else up in that division. Meh I think its just a matter of they need a filler match for December. I would think Charlotte either wins it back (god I hope not I'm sick of the hot potato), Sasha wins out and then turns on Bayley before WM, or Sasha/Bayley go to WM as buddies, Sasha loses and then turns. I'd rather not see Sasha turn since they are kind of already setting up Jericho/Owens for one of them to turn on the other so I'd rather not have two feuds heading into WM kickstarted by someone being turned on. Either way I think Bayley is walking out of WM as the champ this year. Even if the crowd was dead as hell for her tonight or atleast her entrance I didn't catch the rest of her match. She doesn't seem to be getting the reactions she got in NXT though thats for sure. The problem with the Fast Lane match is that they're kind of screwed both ways. If they do another title switch it continues the hot potatoing of the belt to the point of ridiculousness. If they have Sasha break Charlotte's PPV streak, it probably shouldn't be on Fast Lane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Charlotte's PPV win streak is dumb anyway. I'm not sure they even realize it is a thing. It's something I've never heard mentioned on TV (granted, I don't watch every week), but message boards bring up constantly. It's such a meaningless stat. There's nothing to be gained or lost by breaking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpst Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Charlotte's PPV win streak is dumb anyway. I'm not sure they even realize it is a thing. It's something I've never heard mentioned on TV (granted, I don't watch every week), but message boards bring up constantly. It's such a meaningless stat. There's nothing to be gained or lost by breaking it. It was the first thing they discussed during her entrance at HIAC. And it was Cole, so you definitely know it was a point they wanted to drive home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 They can do a draw in the Iron Man and still says she's undefeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.