Jump to content


Photo

Kevin Owens


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 KawadaSmile

KawadaSmile
  • Members
  • 447 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil

Posted 06 December 2016 - 12:08 PM

When he first arrived into NXT, I was actually looking forward to his work. His debut match against CJ Parker - Lord rest his soul - was impressive, he was in good shape, and the visual of him bleeding hardway was a very good first impression.

 

With the Sami Zayn feud, he ended up looking like a monster, defeating his former best friend after referee stoppage. It was different, brutal, and made him look like a smart and brutal heel.

 

Then the Cena feud came along, and while the promos were nice, his aura started fading away, and after that program and his losses to Balor (in also underwhelming matches), he was pretty much dead.

 

His 2016, to me, has been the drizzling shits. Weak comedy skits with Jericho, weak matches with many different guys, and his Universal Title reign is being very, very bad. Not as bad as Rollins' reign of terror last year, but pretty damn bad.

 

 

However, I created this thread because it seemed some people still rated him very highly, and I wanted to know why exactly.



#2 MattOL

MattOL
  • Members
  • 19 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 December 2016 - 03:48 PM

Owens' best qualities are being unassumedly athletic and his creativity. He's also very polished mechanically, a good seller and his matches rarely feel the same, which along with his mid-spot banter, leads to fun house show work.

Unfortunately he's prone to undeliver in main events, which could be due to the current style of WWE big matches or just his opponents. Id say the latter since he has had really fun matches against top level workers like Zayn and Cena, but can't manage to get better stuff out of the likes of Rollins, Ambrose and Balor.

#3 Coffey

Coffey
  • Members
  • 3820 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 December 2016 - 05:45 PM

He just doesn't work smart. He needs to learn the age old adage that less is more. Every match he has, whether it's on TV or WWE Network, he's throwing out a ton of stuff like the Top Rope Snowplow spot or the fat man Senton, and there's a ton of kickouts & finisher trading. Basically, regardless of whomever his opponent is, they keep throwing bombs & kicking out of shit until the marks start chanting "this is awesome!" This is a problem in a lot of WWE main events, not just those with Kevin Owens, but Owens to me embodies the ROH style that I loathe. The same shit that Davey Richards used to get killed online for. I don't buy him as a main eventer anyway, even with the brand split, and this run he's having with the belt feels like someone wanted to push him and someone wanted to sabotage him. Very reminiscent of how I felt when Chris Benoit finally had the belt but wasn't the focal point of the show. Sloppy look, overrated worker, pretty good promo. That's not a top guy.

 

I agree with KawadaSmile. Owens in 2016 is the drizzling shits.



#4 cpst

cpst
  • Members
  • 465 posts

Posted 12 December 2016 - 05:15 PM

Kevin Owens as champion looks like a fan in the stands with a replica belt, so it's not a surprise that a literal list is more over than him during his title reign. Terrible gear and terrible beard. I've quoted this before in other discussions, but Phil Schneider gave the best possible description of Owens as an "ethnic babyface for Internet nerds".

His run in NXT was more hype than actual matches, although I'm not sure it was his fault. They built up the feud with Sami with the matches aborted due to brutality, and then they never delivered on the payoff. When Joe came in they started a feud, but it never actually happened. Owens was on the main roster for his two big matches with Balor, and they felt like faits accomplis.

He does chinlocks in his matches with the intent of trolling the fans for a brief moment, but then just goes right back to the same highspot excess and kickout spam that they eat right up. He's definitely athletic for his size, but he gets gassed near the end of matches and often just stands in place waiting for the next spot.

#5 Laz

Laz
  • Members
  • 384 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:43 AM

If there's a better example of a guy whose best work was before he reached the biggest stage in the last few years then I'm not familiar with them.

KO'S allure on the indies, and ROH especially, was that he always stood out from the pack. He turned his gut into a character feature, would incessantly talk shit whether on offense or defense, and routinely stole the show by daring to actually engage the audience instead of solely following the planned spots. The career long feud with Generico stole the show in every company it was featured in, he was the 100% perfect foil for Cornette as ROH commissioner, and his honesty was outright refreshing.

In fact, I'd say that KO becoming just another part of the show, having his matches follow the same rigid formula as everybody else's, is what turned me off of WWE entirely. Steen saved my love for wrestling, and while I'm glad he's got more money now than ever before and is the champ in the world's largest wrestling company, the booking and obvious micro managing took his specialness away.

#6 CapitalTTruth

CapitalTTruth
  • Members
  • 782 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Markout Mountain

Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:55 AM

I am sort of in the middle on this. I still like Owens a good bit and I generally like when he is on my TV, but I think he has been running against the wind in 2016.

 

I agree completely that he started hot in NXT and I think more or less his whole run there was pretty good. He probably even overachieved to be honest.

 

The Cena feud was fun and better than I would have imagined 1 month earlier. They probably went a bit heavy handed on the indy style. I bet those matches hold up better over time in a vacuum than they do in the moment. They bleed together a good bit in the moment, but I can imagine in a year or two scrolling through and enjoying some of them a lot.  Still, it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and - even in victory - he really couldn't work as the monster he was in NXT. Stylistically he became just another indy guy with big offense. Agreed that some of the luster came off.

 

My biggest problem was the stoogy stuff he did in the aftermath. They clearly had no idea what to do with him, but they wanted to use him. He felt lost, goofy, not at all an ass kicker for months. This whole period was more or less lost to me all the way up to the point where he wont the title and his relationship with Jericho hit its stride. 

 

I loved his comedy stuff with Jericho. I thought the snarky heel champ and his buddy shtick was good. They were fairly nuanced in their promos an it was effective. The fans were eating it up (and I don't think that was all Jericho) and I really believe that a lot of people were invested in him losing the title. He has been a good heel champion that people legit want to see lose, but still want to see on their screens.

 

I also really liked the aesthetic change he took on after getting the title. He cleaned himself up and a lot of times he really did feel like a prize fighter, like a lot of MMA fighters who would clearly rather be wearing a T-Shirt, but they are professional badasses and now they have money so they clean up and they act like a champion. He was performing a champion that earned his glory but wasn't quite comfortable with it. In terms of putting together a character that was a little different and resonated with him as a person and a long time charicter, he was pretty well balanced and interesting.

 

Now, here are the two problems for me. First and foremost, those last two points didn't work well together.  They could, but i do think there was some dissonance. Owens needs to be a heel that has a pretty prominent strand of ass kicker, a heel that wins clean and hurts people or at least hurts people and only cheats to get out at the absolute last minute in certain spots. The Jericho friendship, as fun as it has been, has overemphasized his need for help and under-emphasized Owens the ass kicker champion. The WWE wants the comedy from Owens (and they should) and they want the guy who makes himself stand out, the brutal, violent guy who is different (and they should), but I am not sure they are putting him in spots to do both very effectively at once.

 

The other problem is that he can - as discussed above - he can underperform in big matches and he does tend to throw everything into every match. I see flashes. The ass kicker is in there and Owens can bring it out at the right moment. For example, I though the HIAC match was really quite good and mostly because I thought he turned up the intensity and that match felt different to me. The Zayn match was fantastic, partially for the same reasons, but too often his Raw matches don't feel much different than  his ppv matches. Personally, i would like it if he reigned in the in-ring trash talk and the offense for most matches. I would like it if he wasn't so cute about things all the time and if that was more for special occasions. I would like it if he focused more on ass kicker and sprinkled the goofy comedy in a little more strategically. All that would help differentiate matches and add layers. It all seems sort of jumbled to me right, but that stuff honestly is probably as much what the WWE is asking of him as anything.

 

Ultimately, hat is why i kind of think Owens has been pretty good, even when I am not crazy about what I am seeing. Maybe I am giving him the benefit of the doubt or even a pass because I have been a fan for a while (quite likely), but I see him overachieving given the context and what he is given. He is a guy who pays attention to details and I like that. I like the little things he does to try to be different, to try to push things forward. Moreover he is someone who thinks of wrestling as creating moments (heard him say this more than once on podcasts and what not) rather than creating great matches. You can see that when he is building and when he is in matches. He wants to create the moment when you invest or you say holy shit. Unfortunately, the WWE hasn't always been great at helping him do that with where they have put him and they have overexposed him with their model. It is hard to create moments when you are on TV as much as he is and that could explain his wrestling style and him going all in on RAW matches as much as PPV matches. 

 

To me, many of my criticisms are more with the booking and I don't love they way he has adjusted to the WWE model, structurally, but I have generally enjoyed him on my TV and would rather see him evolve as champion a while longer than I would see them switch gears again.



#7 KawadaSmile

KawadaSmile
  • Members
  • 447 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil

Posted 18 December 2016 - 11:21 PM

I don't know why "Headlock Master" Kevin Owens is still a thing but it needs to go away quickly. It's actively killing his matches.



#8 stro

stro

    legitshook.com

  • Banned
  • 975 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 December 2016 - 01:42 PM

I think he gets the character part of wrestling, but I'm not sure he understands how to apply it to matches. His instincts tend to take him to comedy spots or making sure the fans can chant this is awesome. He's a natural on the mic, but also tends to go for comedy, which makes him kind of hard to take too seriously. It's not like he's a huge super athlete like Rock was, or the legitimate killer Kurt Angle could be when he flipped that switch. I don't think he's a main event type of guy, at least not in WWE, but he's very well suited to having a great mid carder career for many years.

 

I recall seeing some clip from his show/shoot thing he was doing I think for Highspots before WWE signed him where he was talking about a match in ROH where he had someone in a sharpshooter, and he was getting booted repeatedly in the head but just spat at his opponent. When he got to the back, people were saying he killed that boot for future matches (which was I guess a signature for whoever, but I don't recall more than that), and he was like "Who gives a shit, the crowd lost their shit". That seems to be the mentality that most of his generation of indie guys that are currently in WWE seem to have. As long as the crowd pops in the moment, that's all that matters to them. Compare KO and Seth's mentality in matches to AJ Styles'.



#9 G. Badger

G. Badger
  • Members
  • 242 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 February 2017 - 04:03 AM

Sounds like more of an issue with WWE throwing money around to get guys with a buzz...which is nothing new. Buying guys up, hoping that they fit rather than planning on having a spot for them and booking a year with 'em in mind.

Steen/Owens has long term potential but, is still kinda a poor man's Samoa Joe...

#10 Boss Rock

Boss Rock
  • Members
  • 173 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:19 AM

Owens is an interesting case. He's a guy I still like because he's capable of having good matches, he just has a lot of bad habits. Late 2016 is a great example of that, as he was either lazily doing chinlocks for meta heat or having spotfests with Seth to try and pop the crowd. I think some blame deserves to fall on how his reign was booked because it was all about getting Jericho and the list over by having them do comedy, but he would either completely dog it or try and play to the crowd during matches. I feel like he's started to get away from that as he's been doing more heel banter during his matches. He just needs to do less chinlocks.

 

I'm still optimistic about him on SDL as his mic and character work is phenomenal as the cold, uncaring heel who claims his actions are driven by providing for his family when in reality he's just a bad person.



#11 kewf1988

kewf1988
  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:10 PM

He just doesn't work smart. He needs to learn the age old adage that less is more. Every match he has, whether it's on TV or WWE Network, he's throwing out a ton of stuff like the Top Rope Snowplow spot or the fat man Senton, and there's a ton of kickouts & finisher trading. Basically, regardless of whomever his opponent is, they keep throwing bombs & kicking out of shit until the marks start chanting "this is awesome!" This is a problem in a lot of WWE main events, not just those with Kevin Owens, but Owens to me embodies the ROH style that I loathe. The same shit that Davey Richards used to get killed online for. I don't buy him as a main eventer anyway, even with the brand split, and this run he's having with the belt feels like someone wanted to push him and someone wanted to sabotage him. Very reminiscent of how I felt when Chris Benoit finally had the belt but wasn't the focal point of the show. Sloppy look, overrated worker, pretty good promo. That's not a top guy.
 
I agree with KawadaSmile. Owens in 2016 is the drizzling shits.


Owens is easily one of the top 10 workers in the company, probably top 5.

Very good at many styles, especially brawling
Very athletic for a guy with his build
Great offense that looks like it hurts (he likely is stiff/snug)
Great psychology/storytelling (trash talking throughout his matches, his matches with Zayn at Battleground and Payback told GREAT stories)
Great pacing (moves are chained together very well and all serve a purpose)

And I disagree about his look, as like his wrestling style, it fits his character to a tee and really lets him stand out (not everybody needs to, or SHOULD, look like a bodybuilder... the lack of impressive physiques, which more often than not come from steroids and HGH considering the WWE style, is a good thing if it improves match quality and especially if it lengthens the wrestlers' lives). That along with the good in-ring work, mic skills, presence, and charisma is more than enough to make him main event material, especially since Jinder Mahal is the WWE champion. Owens is hardly a spot wrestler (if the big moves serve a purpose and are executed at the right times, then that wrestler isn't a "spot monkey").

#12 jcmmnx

jcmmnx
  • Members
  • 451 posts

Posted 09 June 2017 - 03:07 PM

What's Owens' best non Sami Zayn match in WWE? The first Cena match got overshadowed(the next night I think) when Cena had a similar and better match with Cesaro on Raw. KO's title run got overshadowed by Charlotte and Sasha's feud. I loved his NXT run, but on the main roster it's been a mixed bag to say the least.



#13 SomethingSavage

SomethingSavage
  • Members
  • 837 posts

Posted 10 June 2017 - 05:27 AM

I remember really liking one of the matches with Cesaro. It was sometime in the summer after the Cena feud. Can't recall if it was their SummerSlam match or just on a throwaway Raw. Either way, it was a fun sprint.

 

The Backlash match with AJ has to be up there.

 

And I dug the two PPV matches with Roman during his title reign. Didn't care at all for the Seth series or the endless Seth/Roman/KO/Jericho combinations that seemed to dominate every episode of Raw during that three or four months, but the two PPVs with Roman stood above all that for me.

 

The Roadblock match got a truckload of criticism, 'cause it had a slow start and some stalling with Owens' rest spots. But it picked up toward the end and really kicked into a high gear. Owens smothers Roman with plenty of splashes and fat-man specialty offense, but Reigns just keeps coming back for more. Felt like a rare case of the main event leaving me wanting to see more, which is precisely what that specific outing was designed to actually do.

 

And their Rumble rematch was a super fun gimmick match.

 

That's all I got.



#14 Jmare007

Jmare007
  • Members
  • 1197 posts

Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:56 AM

I'm not sure being a top 10 talent in 1 company is something worth praise.



#15 Maciej

Maciej
  • Members
  • 24 posts

Posted 19 June 2017 - 07:41 PM

I guess I'm higher on the two PPV Jericho matches than most but I do think they're pretty damn good and for me his best non-Zayn matches in WWE. Wrestling about friendship is a soft-spot of mine for sure, and him being able to yell annoying shit like "we were never friends" and recreate paintings for rope breaks while being fairly violent is a perfect use of Owens. And I don't think the slightly comedic nature of that angle neuters his ability to be a threatening ass-kicker (though lots of other WWE booking has, to a certain extent, done that).



#16 KawadaSmile

KawadaSmile
  • Members
  • 447 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Brazil

Posted 24 July 2017 - 11:45 AM

I think it's safe to say that his 2017 has been pretty poor. Outside the Roman PPV matches and the post-shakeup Jericho match, there has been nothing really noteworthy.

 

He just isn't having compelling matches, even against guys like AJ Styles.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users