The Land of the Rising Sun Discussion

[LowBlowPodcast]

Here's a list of guys not currently on any roster (that I could find) who worked in Japan but not for AJPW or NJPW in 1985 (As far as I can tell):

 

Akira Maeda

Yoshiaki Fujiwara

Nobuhiko Takada

Satoru Sayama

Kazuo Yamazaki

Yoji Anjo

Marty Jones

Osamu Kido

Mach Hayato

Masami Soranaka

Jack Snuka (Coco Samoa)

Yukoh Miyato

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable in this area can add to and/or revise this list.

Another interesting question: Should we divide them up? Or use them as real Free Agents who can work for either of us at different times?

 

Or maybe only get them for the tour and do a little draft type thing or something along those lines from tour to tour

[Grimmas]

I thought in the 80s NJPW and AJPW had deals with certain promotions, like NJPW was with the WWF, while AJPW was with AWA for example.

 

If NJPW and AJPW make deals with certain promotions, that way they could send talent on tours and vice versa.

[LowBlowPodcast]

I thought in the 80s NJPW and AJPW had deals with certain promotions, like NJPW was with the WWF, while AJPW was with AWA for example.

 

If NJPW and AJPW make deals with certain promotions, that way they could send talent on tours and vice versa.

 

 

Which in theory is great however you have guys like the Bulldogs who were WWF guys that went to AJPW while the others went to NJPW. Then you have the individuals who we have on our rosters who are touring talents who weren't initially with our promotions back in the 80s.

 

I really think the best thing is what Gordi has done. Plain and simple. He has reached out to us and given us his touring schedule. If Thunderlips does that, he will get the same kind of response and we will give him the talent needed to make his tours special.

[Grimmas]

 

I thought in the 80s NJPW and AJPW had deals with certain promotions, like NJPW was with the WWF, while AJPW was with AWA for example.

 

If NJPW and AJPW make deals with certain promotions, that way they could send talent on tours and vice versa.

 

 

Which in theory is great however you have guys like the Bulldogs who were WWF guys that went to AJPW while the others went to NJPW. Then you have the individuals who we have on our rosters who are touring talents who weren't initially with our promotions back in the 80s.

 

I really think the best thing is what Gordi has done. Plain and simple. He has reached out to us and given us his touring schedule. If Thunderlips does that, he will get the same kind of response and we will give him the talent needed to make his tours special.

 

When Bulldogs went to AJPW, they left the WWF.

[LowBlowPodcast]

 

 

I thought in the 80s NJPW and AJPW had deals with certain promotions, like NJPW was with the WWF, while AJPW was with AWA for example.

 

If NJPW and AJPW make deals with certain promotions, that way they could send talent on tours and vice versa.

 

 

Which in theory is great however you have guys like the Bulldogs who were WWF guys that went to AJPW while the others went to NJPW. Then you have the individuals who we have on our rosters who are touring talents who weren't initially with our promotions back in the 80s.

 

I really think the best thing is what Gordi has done. Plain and simple. He has reached out to us and given us his touring schedule. If Thunderlips does that, he will get the same kind of response and we will give him the talent needed to make his tours special.

 

When Bulldogs went to AJPW, they left the WWF.

 

 

I understand, I just have a couple of other guys who would fall into that same type of thing. So as the WWF, I would have agreements with both AJPW and NJPW. I am more than willing to help them the best I can.

[Grimmas]

I understand and that is probably the most fair for the game, but just wanted to point out the reality. Different companies had deals and they did not work with both. Baba and Inoki would not allow that.

 

Bulldogs wanted to work AJPW and the WWF, but they weren't allowed to do both since WWF had a deal with NJPW. That kind of stuff happened all the time. For the game, we can do whatever you folks want though.

 

As for CMLL, they will deal with NJPW and that is all from Japan. It feels wrong otherwise, for me.

[Thunderlips]

Understand that the freelancers like Hansen will keep those predetermined dates.

 

This change is for American promtions. You have complete control over your promotion and tours. You can keep them the same but now you work out deals to have Americans come over.

 

So if a particular wrestler was scheduled to come over then they will come over no matter what, correct?

[Thunderlips]

Sorry for the long post, but:

 

I want Thunderlips to know that I have had ZERO problems working with the other promoters in this project so far. Everyone has been generous, flexible, enthusiastic, co-operative... You really couldn't ask for a better group of guys to work with.

 

I guess there's a slim chance that having both New Japan and All Japan regularly trying to book gaijin workers could end up making some folks' enthusiasm wear thin in a year or so, but I see absolutely no sign of that at this point. I don't think it will ever be a real issue. I really, really like how it adds an element of challenge and co-operation to the game.

 

I think it also forces us (the Japanese promoters) to book the visiting wrestlers well, because using them well hopefully mans that there won't be any big problem booking them again in the future. If the US promoters HAVE TO send specific guys at specific times, there's nothing to prevent us from just jobbing them out or using them wrong.

 

That being said: It would be helpful to know who the freelancers are going to be in 1985. If it's already been posted somewhere, apologize... but I couldn't find it. In December '84, you had Andre, Terry, Brody, Abdullah, Mascaras, and Hansen. Those guys are all huge names in Japan and true game-changers for booking shows, obviously. Knowing that they will be coming regularly would be a huge help. If it's the same guys (or a similar list) in 1985, that takes tons of pressure off of Thunderlips and I when it comes to booking tours and shows.

 

In order to make it easier to book in the future for people sending wrestlers over and for people wanting to use guys who are on my roster, I set up a full schedule with specific dates for the year. I have to hope that won't conflict with the Freelance schedule.

 

Also, Thunderlips and I will have to work out which freelancers will work for AJPW and which for NJPW. "Real life" 1985 booking (combined with friendly negotiation) might be the best way to do that.

 

Anyway, in my opinion: It's like a security blanket knowing that I can count on Brody or Andre or Terry coming over at a certain time. On the other hand, knowing that I have to book around a large pre-set list of gaijin wrestlers coming over at pre-set dates is more like a straight-jacket.

 

Again, I have had ZERO issues negotiating to bring over midcard guys. I've had ZERO issues negotiating to bring over Main Eventers and huge superstars. I haven't got exactly what I asked for every single time but literally everyone is reasonable about saying "no" and generally they also have a good plan B to offer me. The year hasn't even started yet and I have already had a couple of promoters offer to send guys over because they need to get them out of the territory for story-line reasons or to cool them down It's perfect. It benefits us both. It's a piece of cake!

 

The Freelancers system should make sure that we (the Japanese promoters) are able to book big shows and tournaments with 100 percent confidence that a big name or two will be available to us at that time.

 

Other than that, negotiating for the other gaijin visiting workers adds elements of challenge, fun, and co-operation to the game, and gives us more flexibility in our booking.

 

The flexibility is really important: For example, assuming that Thunderlips is planning to follow the existing AJPW schedule, I was able to book my Tag Fest in February so that it won't conflict at all with AJPW's Tag League. I was able to to book an overseas tour where I won't need gaijin superstars on my cards during October, so that my booking hopefully won't interfere with the Champion's Carnival. "In real life" the IWGP Tag Team League and Real World Tag League were booked in opposition in Nov/Dec '85. I don't think that would be the best situation for this project, so I figure it's a good thing that it's possible to flex out of that.

 

I have already sent out a statement saying that the bigger the star that gets sent over, the better they get pushed to the moon. I have no problems in giving a semi-regular a title belt. I feel that a wrestler could be used to work in both New & All Japan. I'm willing to let a worker who has a tour that's 30 days in length, work 10 days or so for New Japan. Also, I plan on using the real life tour dates as my schedule.

[LowBlowPodcast]

No... only Hansen, Brody, Abdullah, and Mascaras. You'll have to work out the rest of your gaijin to come tour. GordI did a great job of saying when his tours were and pming us to get the tours set. I'd recommend you follow that to supplement when the freelancers are set to come over.

[Thunderlips]

 

I think there was still some discussion to be had regarding the freelancers... in January it will be Brody, Hansen, Abdullah, and Mil Mascaras. Andre goes to the WWF (even though he'll tour) and MACW got Funk.

 

All Japan

Stan Hansen 3/29/85 - 4/25/85 , 5/10/85 - 5/16/85 , 6/28/85 - 7/31/85 , 8/23/85 - 8/31/85 , 11/23/85 - 12/12/85

Bruiser Brody 2/22/85 - 3/14/85

For New Japan

Bruiser Brody 4/18 - 10/4-10/31, 11/15 - 12/11

These are now just details in which everyone can work out the other customizable parts.

Thunderlips - I know you've been gone and this just kind of happened, but as long as you are, everyone is willing to work to make it out. I have guys already booked to New Japan and I plan on keeping a lot of the guys available for you for All Japan... just talk to us and we'll get it figured out.

 

 

To show my flexibility, i'd be willing to let New Japan have Brody for the entire year of 1985, as long as I can get something back in return

[LowBlowPodcast]

That'd something you work out with him. I'd suggest pming each promotion and give us dates and people you'd like.

[gordi]

It's just my opinion, but to me it's less fun to be *too* realistic with how we run things. A certain amount of structure can absolutely help the creative juices to flow, but too much structure starts to cut them off.

 

To put it another way: If I want to read about what actually happened in NJPW in 1985 - when they toured, who the visiting wrestlers were, when the they held their tournaments, who the champions were, and so on - well... I can already read that, and more, online. Ultimately, we end up like that Borges character, just re-writing Don Quixote word for word as our act of creativity.

 

For me, having the NJPW 1985 roster plus some gaijin regulars as a starting point provides a good deal of structure. Respecting, more or less, the hierarchy as I understand it provides a strong foundation. Having some idea of what styles were worked in NJPW in the mid-80s provides a nice load bearing wall I can slowly and carefully try to re-model how I'd like to have seen it.

 

Having, say, Brody come over on a pre-set schedule stimulates my creativity. How best to use him on each visit? Do I put him in there vs. Inoki right away, or hold off for a while? That sort of thing....

 

But, as I have said: I feel like having to follow the existing tour schedule and visiting wrestler schedule of 1985 NJPW would be *too much* structure for me, personally. It would be more realistic, sure, but It would keep me from doing things that I want to do.

 

It seems like Thunderlips is comfortable working with more structure than me. I totally respect that. Even if a promotion kept *everything* else the same, there's a lot of creative work to be done in "just" booking the cards and deciding the results.

 

But I am happy not to be too constricted by adherence to what actually happened. Baba and Inoki may still hate each other in this Universe, but their bookers - gordi and Thunderlips - seem to get along just fine. Who knows what might happen next?

[gordi]

 

I think there was still some discussion to be had regarding the freelancers... in January it will be Brody, Hansen, Abdullah, and Mil Mascaras. Andre goes to the WWF (even though he'll tour) and MACW got Funk.

 

All Japan

Stan Hansen 3/29/85 - 4/25/85 , 5/10/85 - 5/16/85 , 6/28/85 - 7/31/85 , 8/23/85 - 8/31/85 , 11/23/85 - 12/12/85

 

Bruiser Brody 2/22/85 - 3/14/85

 

For New Japan

Bruiser Brody 4/18 - 10/4-10/31, 11/15 - 12/11

 

These are now just details in which everyone can work out the other customizable parts.

 

Thunderlips - I know you've been gone and this just kind of happened, but as long as you are, everyone is willing to work to make it out. I have guys already booked to New Japan and I plan on keeping a lot of the guys available for you for All Japan... just talk to us and we'll get it figured out.

 

To show my flexibility, i'd be willing to let New Japan have Brody for the entire year of 1985, as long as I can get something back in return

How about in return you get first shot at which of the free agents you'd like to book, and when? Like, you can book your whole year of tours with them, then I just pick over what's left. I'd be OK with that as long as there's a gentleman's agreement that you won't book all of the best ones for every tour.

[gordi]

Three posts in a row, but... I have a lot of thoughts on this topic :-)

It's too bad that there's really nobody on the US Free Agent wire who is a big enough name to be used as an additional freelancer/touring attraction.

It would be really cool if a US promoter could willingly put one of their "Big in Japan" names on the freelancer list to sweeten it up for us a little, but I know that is a *lot* to ask.

I really like LowBlow's suggestion that we use the Japanese Free Agent wire by booking Free Agents on a tour by tour basis. For me, the best way to use Fujiwara, Takayama, Sayama, and co. would be to keep it special by only using them sparingly. I'd like to ask if we could please add Siva Afi, Gypsy Joe, Gama Singh, and Sweet Daddy Siki to my list of eleven names on the Japanese Free Agents list, and take them off the US Free agency wire. 15 Free Agents seems like a decent number. All of them except Singh worked Japan in the real world in 1985, and there is a long tradition of wrestlers from India working in Japan.

If anyone - particularly Thunderlips - has suggestions re: Free Agents in Japan, they would be appreciated.

I also think that the Japanese Free Agents should be available to US promoters, but only for a month at a time, and through arrangement with the Japanese promoters. All of this could be organized pretty easily by setting up a separate "Japanese Free Agency Wire" thread.

 

If someone (Gypsy Joe, maybe) on the Japanese Free Agents list doesn't get booked for a year (or even, say, six months) they could be put on the US Free Agency wire.

 

Small thing, but: I see that Shuni Takano (who worked Stampede in '83) is on the US Free Agents list. I'd like him removed, since he's on the New Japan roster now (And still available for bookings overseas if anyone needs him).

If Thunderlips and LowBlow agree, that's my best suggestion.

[LowBlowPodcast]

Consider Andre a freelancer, you just get to do the booking through the WWF like it was in real life.

[SirEdger]

Three posts in a row, but... I have a lot of thoughts on this topic :-)

 

It's too bad that there's really nobody on the US Free Agent wire who is a big enough name to be used as an additional freelancer/touring attraction.

 

It would be really cool if a US promoter could willingly put one of their "Big in Japan" names on the freelancer list to sweeten it up for us a little, but I know that is a *lot* to ask.

 

I really like LowBlow's suggestion that we use the Japanese Free Agent wire by booking Free Agents on a tour by tour basis. For me, the best way to use Fujiwara, Takayama, Sayama, and co. would be to keep it special by only using them sparingly. I'd like to ask if we could please add Siva Afi, Gypsy Joe, Gama Singh, and Sweet Daddy Siki to my list of eleven names on the Japanese Free Agents list, and take them off the US Free agency wire. 15 Free Agents seems like a decent number. All of them except Singh worked Japan in the real world in 1985, and there is a long tradition of wrestlers from India working in Japan.

 

If anyone - particularly Thunderlips - has suggestions re: Free Agents in Japan, they would be appreciated.

 

I also think that the Japanese Free Agents should be available to US promoters, but only for a month at a time, and through arrangement with the Japanese promoters. All of this could be organized pretty easily by setting up a separate "Japanese Free Agency Wire" thread.

 

If someone (Gypsy Joe, maybe) on the Japanese Free Agents list doesn't get booked for a year (or even, say, six months) they could be put on the US Free Agency wire.

 

Small thing, but: I see that Shuni Takano (who worked Stampede in '83) is on the US Free Agents list. I'd like him removed, since he's on the New Japan roster now (And still available for bookings overseas if anyone needs him).

 

If Thunderlips and LowBlow agree, that's my best suggestion.

 

We actually did something like this earlier this fall as some Japanese guys were available for limited excursions but only 2 promotions (me with Rusher Kimura & AWA with the future Jushin Thunder Liger) used those but I also thought it was a great concept to use and with the addition of All Japan & New Japan, this is something we're gonna really be able to push forward in the future, within the guidelines of the game, of course.

[Thunderlips]

No... only Hansen, Brody, Abdullah, and Mascaras. You'll have to work out the rest of your gaijin to come tour. GordI did a great job of saying when his tours were and pming us to get the tours set. I'd recommend you follow that to supplement when the freelancers are set to come over.

 

I was following the wrestlers who were already coming over according to wrestledata.com

[Thunderlips]

 

 

Im all for scraping the schedule and working with the Japanese promoters. I have plans for 1985, but this game is always changing, always evolving. My plans change constantly, with trades, drafts, etc. Also, as long as my top two/three angles are going along, the rest of my stuff can be super flexible.

 

Also, welcome to the game gentlemen. I am looking forward to working with all the new bookers going forward.

 

The problem with that is that the Japanese promotions aren't allowed to be in the fresh face draft.

 

 

I have said this multiple times... we are not going to give up US talent to come over and be Japan exclusive. There are Japanese free agents and fresh faces. We will work out those details. It is simply part of the process. There are a ton of Japanese wrestlers who debut in 85 and 86. If we figure out a way for them to be part of it... we can add you guys in the draft but only allow you to pick from the Japanese talent.

 

 

It seems to be that this game is really tilted towards the US promotions when it's time for a new rule or decision to be made.

[Thunderlips]

 

I thought in the 80s NJPW and AJPW had deals with certain promotions, like NJPW was with the WWF, while AJPW was with AWA for example.

 

If NJPW and AJPW make deals with certain promotions, that way they could send talent on tours and vice versa.

 

 

Which in theory is great however you have guys like the Bulldogs who were WWF guys that went to AJPW while the others went to NJPW. Then you have the individuals who we have on our rosters who are touring talents who weren't initially with our promotions back in the 80s.

 

I really think the best thing is what Gordi has done. Plain and simple. He has reached out to us and given us his touring schedule. If Thunderlips does that, he will get the same kind of response and we will give him the talent needed to make his tours special.

 

 

Everyone here has been sent the dates of each All Japan tour and their dates for every tour. Also listed was the real life wrestlers and the dates they worked for each tour.

[LowBlowPodcast]

 

 

 

Im all for scraping the schedule and working with the Japanese promoters. I have plans for 1985, but this game is always changing, always evolving. My plans change constantly, with trades, drafts, etc. Also, as long as my top two/three angles are going along, the rest of my stuff can be super flexible.

 

Also, welcome to the game gentlemen. I am looking forward to working with all the new bookers going forward.

 

The problem with that is that the Japanese promotions aren't allowed to be in the fresh face draft.

 

 

I have said this multiple times... we are not going to give up US talent to come over and be Japan exclusive. There are Japanese free agents and fresh faces. We will work out those details. It is simply part of the process. There are a ton of Japanese wrestlers who debut in 85 and 86. If we figure out a way for them to be part of it... we can add you guys in the draft but only allow you to pick from the Japanese talent.

 

 

It seems to be that this game is really tilted towards the US promotions when it's time for a new rule or decision to be made.

 

 

 

You are right. It has been tilted that way based off its foundation. Like I have said numerous times... we are ever changing. With this vote, you can see that it was voted to scrap. You have the option to follow that or not continue the game. I hate to throw it out there that way, but everyone is on board with you pming us and setting up different tours. You may be surprised as to who you get instead of going against what we have decided.

 

So plain and simple... for everyone to read...

 

There are NO SET GAIJIN TO TOUR OUTSIDE OF Hansen, Brody, Abdullah, and Mil. Any data from wrestling data or cage match is WHAT did happen... you now have full control over who comes over. Thunderlips, you need to do what Gordi did and communicate with everyone about the tours. I have said this a couple of times. We are not entitled to send you anyone... but everyone here has already said they would... you just need to talk to us.

 

I am sorry for being so hard on this but I have said the same thing over and over.

[Thunderlips]

 

 

 

 

Im all for scraping the schedule and working with the Japanese promoters. I have plans for 1985, but this game is always changing, always evolving. My plans change constantly, with trades, drafts, etc. Also, as long as my top two/three angles are going along, the rest of my stuff can be super flexible.

 

Also, welcome to the game gentlemen. I am looking forward to working with all the new bookers going forward.

 

The problem with that is that the Japanese promotions aren't allowed to be in the fresh face draft.

 

 

I have said this multiple times... we are not going to give up US talent to come over and be Japan exclusive. There are Japanese free agents and fresh faces. We will work out those details. It is simply part of the process. There are a ton of Japanese wrestlers who debut in 85 and 86. If we figure out a way for them to be part of it... we can add you guys in the draft but only allow you to pick from the Japanese talent.

 

 

It seems to be that this game is really tilted towards the US promotions when it's time for a new rule or decision to be made.

 

 

 

You are right. It has been tilted that way based off its foundation. Like I have said numerous times... we are ever changing. With this vote, you can see that it was voted to scrap. You have the option to follow that or not continue the game. I hate to throw it out there that way, but everyone is on board with you pming us and setting up different tours. You may be surprised as to who you get instead of going against what we have decided.

 

So plain and simple... for everyone to read...

 

There are NO SET GAIJIN TO TOUR OUTSIDE OF Hansen, Brody, Abdullah, and Mil. Any data from wrestling data or cage match is WHAT did happen... you now have full control over who comes over. Thunderlips, you need to do what Gordi did and communicate with everyone about the tours. I have said this a couple of times. We are not entitled to send you anyone... but everyone here has already said they would... you just need to talk to us.

 

I am sorry for being so hard on this but I have said the same thing over and over.

 

 

I haven't been able to physically be online and type. I didn't like the fact that decisions were made before I could even chime in on them. To me, that makes things seem sneaky, especially when I told you that I was having the surgery and couldn't be available. This isn't my first foray into booking territories and it won't be my last.

[LowBlowPodcast]

 

 

 

 

 

Im all for scraping the schedule and working with the Japanese promoters. I have plans for 1985, but this game is always changing, always evolving. My plans change constantly, with trades, drafts, etc. Also, as long as my top two/three angles are going along, the rest of my stuff can be super flexible.

 

Also, welcome to the game gentlemen. I am looking forward to working with all the new bookers going forward.

 

The problem with that is that the Japanese promotions aren't allowed to be in the fresh face draft.

 

 

I have said this multiple times... we are not going to give up US talent to come over and be Japan exclusive. There are Japanese free agents and fresh faces. We will work out those details. It is simply part of the process. There are a ton of Japanese wrestlers who debut in 85 and 86. If we figure out a way for them to be part of it... we can add you guys in the draft but only allow you to pick from the Japanese talent.

 

 

It seems to be that this game is really tilted towards the US promotions when it's time for a new rule or decision to be made.

 

 

 

You are right. It has been tilted that way based off its foundation. Like I have said numerous times... we are ever changing. With this vote, you can see that it was voted to scrap. You have the option to follow that or not continue the game. I hate to throw it out there that way, but everyone is on board with you pming us and setting up different tours. You may be surprised as to who you get instead of going against what we have decided.

 

So plain and simple... for everyone to read...

 

There are NO SET GAIJIN TO TOUR OUTSIDE OF Hansen, Brody, Abdullah, and Mil. Any data from wrestling data or cage match is WHAT did happen... you now have full control over who comes over. Thunderlips, you need to do what Gordi did and communicate with everyone about the tours. I have said this a couple of times. We are not entitled to send you anyone... but everyone here has already said they would... you just need to talk to us.

 

I am sorry for being so hard on this but I have said the same thing over and over.

 

 

I haven't been able to physically be online and type. I didn't like the fact that decisions were made before I could even chime in on them. To me, that makes things seem sneaky, especially when I told you that I was having the surgery and couldn't be available. This isn't my first foray into booking territories and it won't be my last.

 

 

 

That's why it was a vote. You decided to jump into booking Japan, I opened it up, and things moved forward. Everyone but you is on this train right now. As I said, go to your pms so we can get this figured out.

[LowBlowPodcast]

With 5 votes, this has been decided for all intensive purposes but I'd still like to see some feedback once thunderlips comes back from surgery.

[gordi]

 

 

 

I haven't been able to physically be online and type. I didn't like the fact that decisions were made before I could even chime in on them. To me, that makes things seem sneaky, especially when I told you that I was having the surgery and couldn't be available. This isn't my first foray into booking territories and it won't be my last.

 

 

I can take responsibility for a lot of the discussion taking place while you were out.

 

I can assure you that nobody meant to undermine you or go behind your back. I was just excited about ideas I had for re-working how NJPW was booked in 1985 and I was eager to get started on planning them out, so I pushed the idea of dropping pre-set touring schedule so that I could have more flexibility in booking.

 

In my defense, I didn't know you were out having surgery until the discussion was already underway. Still, if you wanna blame anyone, blame me.

 

I actually assumed that you would agree that it's more fun to have the freedom to book who we want.

[Thunderlips]

 

Thanks for the info re: free agents, hopefully we can build that up a little going forward.

 

A smart solution to Fresh Faces and Free Agents might be to have Japan-exclusive Free Agents (guys like Fujiwara and Maeda who weren't working for AJPW or NJPW in 1985, but were working in Japan) and a J-exclusive draft for Japanese natives like Asai, Hase, and Kensuke. Won't be a ton of them, but there are only two Japanese promotions so it balances out

 

American promoters wanting to use those guys could then book them through us, like we book gaijin visitors now.

 

 

Exactly. I will just need your guys help putting together those lists for the Japanese talent.

 

 

I'm onboard with this also.