Any other longterm fans starting to feel alienated by the current fanbase?

[rzombie1988]

I'm finding myself falling out further and further from modern day wrestling and its fans.

 

I don't like the current style at all. I think there's some positives to it like people trying to give the fans their moneys worth and not being lazy, but those things are being sacrificed for good booking, good character development, believable wrestling and good mic skills. I'd even go so far as to say that matches are consistently better now than they used to be, but the best matches of this generation doesn't touch the best of previous generations.

 

While I haven't seen the match yet, I already am seeing people blow their loads all over Omega/Okada and have seen multiple people call it the best match ever and Match of the Decade. While I'm sure it was good, I highly doubt its at that level.

 

I feel really left out as someone who lived through the beginning of the indy era to today. Most of the people losing their minds seem like people who are newer to the scene and more general fans are starting to see indy/Japanese stuff. These people haven't been watching it for many years, so of course it's amazing stuff to them. While there's nothing wrong with that, they are overcoming the people who have been around a while and have years of watching a lot of the people the IWC loves today. And a lot of the people who were around back in the day are now gone. Even worse, like a lot of other things this year, it is insanely hard to not be downvoted or rallied against for being neutral, objective or just plain negative to the majority opinion but still get any respect from it.

 

Anyone else feeling the same way? I'm starting to totally get why a lot of older guys that we write off are like "hey this stuff sucks compared to before" while the present day fans think they are nuts.

[JerryvonKramer]

Yes

[Grimmas]

I' m sure 70s fans felt the same way about 80s fans. 80s fans felt the same way about 90s fans, etc...

[rzombie1988]

I' m sure 70s fans felt the same way about 80s fans. 80s fans felt the same way about 90s fans, etc...

I don't disagree at all, though I think the transition from the 70's to the 80's and the 90's to the 2000's was a lot smoother.

 

Hate to see what it's gonna be like in the 2020's though. The way it is going tells me it is going to have even more big spots, big moves and more video game style wrestling.

[JerryvonKramer]

I' m sure 70s fans felt the same way about 80s fans. 80s fans felt the same way about 90s fans, etc...

They definitely did.

[Matt D]

History has shown that they were right, too. Think about how bad we are. Imagine the kids in 2030!

[Coffey]

We're just getting older, man. That's how it goes. I lost my mind listening to and reading people trying to say that Steph Curry was better than Michael Jordan in the NBA or that Larry Bird was overrated.

 

Nowadays in pro-wrestling, I see people trying to tell me that Kevin Owens, The Young Bucks or Seth Rollins are great and I just don't see it or get it.

 

There's a formula used in wrestling nowadays that always garners the "this is awesome!" BS. Basically when you start trading finishers & kicking out of everything. I dislike that formula & it seems I'm in the minority on that dislike. So yeah, I feel alienated to a degree.

[Grimmas]

 

I' m sure 70s fans felt the same way about 80s fans. 80s fans felt the same way about 90s fans, etc...

I don't disagree at all, though I think the transition from the 70's to the 80's and the 90's to the 2000's was a lot smoother.

 

Hate to see what it's gonna be like in the 2020's though. The way it is going tells me it is going to have even more big spots, big moves and more video game style wrestling.

 

Smoother, or just less people had a platform?

[rzombie1988]

 

 

I' m sure 70s fans felt the same way about 80s fans. 80s fans felt the same way about 90s fans, etc...

I don't disagree at all, though I think the transition from the 70's to the 80's and the 90's to the 2000's was a lot smoother.

 

Hate to see what it's gonna be like in the 2020's though. The way it is going tells me it is going to have even more big spots, big moves and more video game style wrestling.

 

Smoother, or just less people had a platform?

 

I really don't think the jump from the 70's to 80's was that bad. Mostly the same stuff, just they gave you a bit more and WWF had some pretty awful gimmicks at times, though the knockoff Batman's of the 70's weren't much better.

 

90's to the 2000's is mostly the same wrestling wise. Early 90's saw Liger show us what the future was going to be in like, followed by Lighting Kid and Lynn, then jumped over to people like Rey/Michaels/Eddy/Benoit/Jericho guiding us to the 2000's. Most people didn't see Japanese wrestling so I don't really consider it since it was the 1% of American fans. Presentation wise, obviously the 90's were a total mess as you had people hanging on to the old style followed by Austin and ECW breaking all conventional rules of wrestling.

[Jetlag]

[rzombie1988]

We're just getting older, man. That's how it goes. I lost my mind listening to and reading people trying to say that Steph Curry was better than Michael Jordan in the NBA or that Larry Bird was overrated.

 

 

I think the various defensive rules is what got us where we are today in the NBA, which is going through a lot of the same issues. Defenders can't do shit, leading to people sleeping their way to 40 point games.

[pol]

I think the bigger disconnect is between fans that are in the Observer, DVDVR "smart mark" tradition and a newer group of fans that have more in common with capital-f Fandom, Tumblr etc.

[rzombie1988]

I think the bigger disconnect is between fans that are in the Observer, DVDVR "smart mark" tradition and a newer group of fans that have more in common with capital-f Fandom, Tumblr etc.

I can agree with that and the tumblr/fandom/twitter guys are starting to win out.

[rzombie1988]

History has shown that they were right, too. Think about how bad we are. Imagine the kids in 2030!

 

Just hope it doesn't look like late 90's AJPW where german suplexes were about as lethal as a body slam.

[JerryvonKramer]

Lou Thesz and co looked down on Ric Flair and co.

 

For me these days the problem more than anything else is transience. When I was growing up, I read about fans talking up Flair vs Steamboat, and older fans talked up Dory vs Brisco or other legendary feuds.

 

Things that happened when I was younger seem to have retained their significance. I was struck when I was reminiscing with Allan and Chris Hero a few weeks back, both Allan and my minds went back to Bret Hart tapping the belt on his shoulder in the build to Wrestlemania 9. Now Mania 9 wasn't even a good mania and and Bret vs Yoko wasn't a particularly great match but the importance still seemed to etch itself in our 11-year old minds.

 

I do wonder if stuff these days retains that sort of significance. Will people still talk about the great matches from April 2016 in the same way we still look back on 1989 or 1992 now?

 

For some reason, it doesn't seem the same. It's all transient. I do not know though if it's just cos I'm older or if it's something to do with the product.

[pol]

 

I think the bigger disconnect is between fans that are in the Observer, DVDVR "smart mark" tradition and a newer group of fans that have more in common with capital-f Fandom, Tumblr etc.

I can agree with that and the tumblr/fandom/twitter guys are starting to win out.

 

 

That's inevitable and frankly watching wrestling to uncritically enjoy it is probably a lot more pure and good than analysing and dissecting everything. I do sometimes find it hard to relate to such people on wrestling though, even if I like them personally.

 

That said, plenty of those types of fans are critical, it's just they often look at very different things from us—emotional content, melodrama etc. more than stiffness or working a body part.

[overbooked]

I do wonder if stuff these days retains that sort of significance. Will people still talk about the great matches from April 2016 in the same way we still look back on 1989 or 1992 now?

 

For some reason, it doesn't seem the same. It's all transient. I do not know though if it's just cos I'm older or if it's something to do with the product.

I think it is fairly standard to attribute meaning and significance to events in your youth. I'm sure many of us do that with music, sport, TV as well as wrestling. Everything means more in childhood and in your teens.

 

However, I think scarcity helped too. I think the sheer volume of wrestling today, rather than the product itself, makes everything feel more transient. We can very quickly move on to the next thing. We're not waiting each month for an Apter mag or a VHS.

 

But the current fans' eagerness to attribute significance to modern wrestling, to fight that transience, is really interesting. I think the "IWC" was far more negative about contemporary wrestling 10-15 years ago.

[JerryvonKramer]

There feels like a difference between people who are from the old school of star ratings, and ... I don't know how else to put it, the twitter people.

[Coffey]

Lou Thesz and co looked down on Ric Flair and co.

 

For me these days the problem more than anything else is transience. When I was growing up, I read about fans talking up Flair vs Steamboat, and older fans talked up Dory vs Brisco or other legendary feuds.

 

Things that happened when I was younger seem to have retained their significance. I was struck when I was reminiscing with Allan and Chris Hero a few weeks back, both Allan and my minds went back to Bret Hart tapping the belt on his shoulder in the build to Wrestlemania 9. Now Mania 9 wasn't even a good mania and and Bret vs Yoko wasn't a particularly great match but the importance still seemed to etch itself in our 11-year old minds.

 

I do wonder if stuff these days retains that sort of significance. Will people still talk about the great matches from April 2016 in the same way we still look back on 1989 or 1992 now?

 

For some reason, it doesn't seem the same. It's all transient. I do not know though if it's just cos I'm older or if it's something to do with the product.

 

There was a time when as a wrestling fan, not only did I never miss a show but I could remember all the cards that I had watched too. I could name off, at the very least, the main event of each of the big shows from the main companies.

 

You ask me to name the main event of Wrestlemania from 2000-2016 and I don't think I could name even half of them. Just... doesn't register anymore.

 

I'm older and probably more forgetful but there's so much more wrestling nowadays and it all seems to mean so much less. The Undertaker losing his streak felt like a big deal because it was such a long-lasting thing. So there was a shock value that it actually ended. But match wise, for at least fifteen years for me, things barely register at all.

 

I remember really liking the Wyatt Family Vs. The Shield from Elimination Chamber in 2013 or whenever it was. 2014 maybe but wrestling is just more forgettable nowadays to me.

 

Maybe it is just because we're getting older. Or because we've seen too much. Or hell, I don't know. It might also just be that shit isn't as memorable/good anymore. I still remember when Shawn Michaels turned on Jannetty on The Barbershop & threw his ass through the window but if that happened on RAW today, it would be forgotten two segments later. They just move on like it didn't matter.

[pol]

There feels like a difference between people who are from the old school of star ratings, and ... I don't know how else to put it, the twitter people.

 

https://np.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/2u73cg/tumblrbashing_why_or_why_not/co5ucsk/

[rzombie1988]

Lou Thesz and co looked down on Ric Flair and co.

 

For me these days the problem more than anything else is transience. When I was growing up, I read about fans talking up Flair vs Steamboat, and older fans talked up Dory vs Brisco or other legendary feuds.

 

Things that happened when I was younger seem to have retained their significance. I was struck when I was reminiscing with Allan and Chris Hero a few weeks back, both Allan and my minds went back to Bret Hart tapping the belt on his shoulder in the build to Wrestlemania 9. Now Mania 9 wasn't even a good mania and and Bret vs Yoko wasn't a particularly great match but the importance still seemed to etch itself in our 11-year old minds.

 

I do wonder if stuff these days retains that sort of significance. Will people still talk about the great matches from April 2016 in the same way we still look back on 1989 or 1992 now?

 

For some reason, it doesn't seem the same. It's all transient. I do not know though if it's just cos I'm older or if it's something to do with the product.

 

I agree.

 

I don't think people are going to be talking about the 2010 classics because it blends together and with this generation cutting the chord, a lot of people won't even have access to it.The standout 2010's matches are likely a lot less than the 90's and 00's matches. I think wrestling is consistently better now than it ever has been before, but the truly great matches are lesser.

 

I think when people start looking back to the 2010's, they are going to find a lot of good stuff, but little standout stuff. Zayn/Nakamura might stand the test of time along with a few others, but all of the ROH mini-classics and stuff are going to be gone. Heck, there's even a bunch of stuff with people like AJ, Joe and Homicide that is probably gone for good due to indy companies either not selling it or closing up shop and forgetting about it. We will have to hope someone like a WWE will come along and buy it up so it doesn't get lost as well.

[Grimmas]

Lou Thesz and co looked down on Ric Flair and co.

 

For me these days the problem more than anything else is transience. When I was growing up, I read about fans talking up Flair vs Steamboat, and older fans talked up Dory vs Brisco or other legendary feuds.

 

Things that happened when I was younger seem to have retained their significance. I was struck when I was reminiscing with Allan and Chris Hero a few weeks back, both Allan and my minds went back to Bret Hart tapping the belt on his shoulder in the build to Wrestlemania 9. Now Mania 9 wasn't even a good mania and and Bret vs Yoko wasn't a particularly great match but the importance still seemed to etch itself in our 11-year old minds.

 

I do wonder if stuff these days retains that sort of significance. Will people still talk about the great matches from April 2016 in the same way we still look back on 1989 or 1992 now?

 

For some reason, it doesn't seem the same. It's all transient. I do not know though if it's just cos I'm older or if it's something to do with the product.

I don't know about this. I think there are moments people will/do talk about. Pipe Bomb promo. Cena-Lesnar. Rollins cash in at mania, etc...

 

I think our interaction with younger fans is lower, so it's difficult to see.

[rzombie1988]

 

There feels like a difference between people who are from the old school of star ratings, and ... I don't know how else to put it, the twitter people.

 

https://np.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/2u73cg/tumblrbashing_why_or_why_not/co5ucsk/

 

Reddit is overall bad for discussion in my opinion because of the voting system. I can literally make 5 accounts and wreck any minority opinion. Upvotes can also be bought for something like 50 cents to a dollar per upvote. It's really not conducive to good discussion. The bad thing is that it is likely going to going to outlive every other forum and is going to be seen as the norm for people 20 years down the line, while older privately owned sites likely close out due to lack of interest. There was tons of good stuff written on sites like Smarkschoice that are AFAIK gone forever.

 

Really good topic you quoted though. I think it is a subject that a lot of people aren't aware of.

[GOTNW]

Overrracting is the hip thing now. I'd much rather operate in a bubble if that's how I can get the most out of watching wrestling than complain about how I don't think the hip thing now isn't all that great. We'll see what'll happen once it's time to reevaluate things ten, fifteen years from now.

[overbooked]

In a properly post-post-kayfabe world does anyone really care who wins and loses? Or do they just care about match quality? I'm just wondering if things might have mattered more in the past and were more memorable because of a real emotional reaction.

 

However, listening to some recent podcasts on territorial stuff there's always been old guys like us moaning about the modern product and waxing lyrical about what happened twenty years ago.