Most Important Matches in History

[Grimmas]

I was wondering what people thought were the most important matches in different time periods and areas of the world.

 

Things like Gotch-Hackensmidt on April 3, 1908 drew like 28,000. That's pretty damn important, but what are the matches like that in England, Mexico, Japan, etc.. ?

 

Is Hogan-Andre at WM3 the most important or is their rematch on the Main Event with the largest audience at the time bigger?

[JerryvonKramer]

Big Daddy vs Giant Haystacks, June 18th 1981, Wembley

[elliott]

I brought this up in the Beginner's Guide to Lucha thread to try and get a better picture of Mexico. The matches I mentioned were:

Santo vs Black Shadow Mask vs Mask 11/7/52

Santo vs Blue Demon 9/27/53 NWA Welterweight TItle

Wagner vs Solitario 12/1/85

Rayo vs Cien Caras 9/21/90

 

Atlantis vs Ultimo Guerrero Mask vs Mask was brought up as it was the first million dollar gate in lucha.

 

OJ added:

Medico Asesino vs. Gardenia Davis from 1952 because of the crowd it drew at Plaza de Toro (45,000+)

Cien Caras vs. Konnan from Triplemania I, which still holds the record for the biggest crowd in lucha history (48,000)

 

I was curious about El Santo & Henry Pilusso vs Espanto I & II 7/5/62 because it was El Santo's first match as a tecnico. I'm sure there are probably other El Santo matches that deserve recognition.

 

Do we know when or what the first Trios match was? That's a rather ambitious question, but I feel like some trios match would have to be considered given that's probably 85% of lucha matches.

[elliott]

Japan I think is a little more cut and dry since we know more about Japanese wrestling than Lucha Libre and have some really great and really easy resources.

 

Rikidozan vs Lou Thesz 10/7/57 basically has to be #1. It drew 27,000 fans to Korakuen Stadium and the television rating was 87.5. Eighty-Seven Point Five. Like whoa. Obviously this was during the infancy of television in Japan and so there weren't nearly as many TV sets in circulation. But still. 87.5. Whoa. I found something that says 73million people watched the match with hordes of people crowding around to watch the match through the windows.

 

 

Rikidozan & Masahiko Kimura vs Mike & Ben Sharpe 2/19/54 (This is from Hisa's site) - "JWA promotes their first cards at Kuramae Kokugikan (old Sumo Hall) for three days. Masahiko Kimura and Yamaguchi also wrestle on the cards. The first day is aired by both NHK (Japan Broadcasting Corporation, the semi-govermental broadcasting network) and NTV (Nippon Television Network). NTV also aired the second and third days. The tag matches between Rikidozan & Kimura and the Sharp Brothers, main event of the first and the last days, are still talked about today. In front of the "street television" that NTV setup for people who couldn't afford television, there were thousands of people just to watch Rikidozan."

 

So that has to be considered.

 

Rikidozan & Toyonobori lost to Jim Wright & Mr X (Bill Miller) 5/6/61 in 3 falls at the Ayame Pond Amusement Park which drew 36,000 people and was the indoor attendance record for wrestling until....gosh...what other building could hold that many people?

 

I don't have a TV rating or crowd attendance number, but Rikidozan vs Fred Blassie 4/23/62 is the famous bloodbath that caused an elderly fan to die from shock watching on TV.

 

Rikidozan and The Destroyer wrestled to a draw for the first time on 5/24/63 drawing a 64.1 rating and I think is still the largest audience to ever view a match in Japan.

 

Giant Baba beat Fritz Von Erich 12/3/66 in the first ever Budokan Hall main event.

 

Giant Baba beat Destroyer 12/19/72 with the stipulation if Baba won, the Destroyer would join Baba's team and be his partner from then on. This helped solidify All Japan as a major promotion.

 

I don't know what the fuck to do with something like Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki but it really should probably be on the list.

[elliott]

Couple of oddball ones for Japan I wanted to mention because there are hugely important matches that didn't take place in giant stadiums and we should talk about those too!

 

Riki Choshu, Masa Saito & Hiro Saito vs Akira Maeda, Nobuhiko Takada & Osamu Kido 11/19/87 - Maeda shoot kicks Choshu in the face shattering his orbital bone which took Maeda from the hottest wrestler in Japan to a guy who could open his own promotion and sell out every show without TV and influence the two major companies to alter their booking styles completely by switching to almost all clean finishes.

 

Piggybacking off of that:

Nobuhiko Takada KO Akira Maeda 11/11/88 in Nagoya, Japan Aichi Prefectural Gym drawing 5,000 ($175,000). Maeda makes Takada who would go on to be one of the biggest draws of his generation. Takada was the first guy of the Misawa, Kawada, Hashimoto, Mutoh generation to beat a guy from the Jumbo, Tenryu, Fujinami, Choshu generation clean in the middle of the ring.

 

Someone else can talk about Onita

[joeg]

I've asked this before and never really gotten a good answer, who was hottest at that time? Meada? Tenryu? Fujinami? Choshu? etc.

[Childs]

Flair-Kerry 12/25/82, Final Conflict, Starcade I main event, Wrestlemania I main event, Jumbo-Misawa 6/8/90, Hogan joins NWO Bash at the Beach '96, Bret-Austin at Mania, Hogan-Sting at Starcade '97, Montreal screwjob.

[elliott]

Childs, whats the "most important" match in 1980s New Japan? Hogan vs Inoki? One of the Choshu vs Fujinami matches?

[Indikator]

Why is a big house or a good angle important? You wouldn't need Flair-Kerry 12/25/82, you would need the match where David (or better, Kevin) was successful enough for Fritz to warrant that his territory should be carried by his young and skinnier rookie boys.

[ohtani's jacket]

Big Daddy vs Giant Haystacks, June 18th 1981, Wembley

 

If I were a podcast guy, I think I would have a show about whether this match killed the territory.

 

The two matches that old time British fans always talk about are the Kendo Nagasaki vs. Count Bartelli mask vs. mask match and the White Angel vs. Doctor Death mask match. People probably don't think of British wrestling when they think mask matches but Bartelli had worn his for 20 year when Nagasaki unmasked him and Doctor Death was a massive draw. Neither of these matches drew huge crowds by US or Japanese standards but the number of people who claimed they were there has grown exponentially over the years.

 

The McManus vs. Pallo Cup Final Day match from '62 is another major match in British wrestling history and drew a huge television rating. People often talk about the night Prince Philip was at the Royal Albert Hall but that was more for his appearance than any particular match.

 

If you're going to include Daddy vs. Haystacks then you should also include Daddy vs. Quinn from Wembley.

 

I'm pretty sure Bert Assirati had some big matches back in the day. I know of one famous one against The French Angel Maurice Tillet.

 

If we're talking about important matches then the success of the first TV show ought to carry some weight. The matches on that show were Francis St. Clair Gregory vs. Mike Marino and Cliff Beaumont vs.Bert Royal. The peak of the TV success was an episode in 1965 that drew 7.3 million viewers. The matches were Roy Bull Davis vs. Billy Howes and Johnny Eagle vs. Ken Cadman. Not the most famous pair of matches in British wrestling history but possibly the most watched.

[WingedEagle]

 

Do we know when or what the first Trios match was? That's a rather ambitious question, but I feel like some trios match would have to be considered given that's probably 85% of lucha matches.

 

I believe Meltzer pointed to a match where El Santo suffered a heart attack in the ring again Los Misioneros de la Muerte as the point when trios matches became a headline act and titles followed around that time as well. Not sure about the debut, but my recollection was that they had occurred previously but became a headline act after that.

[ohtani's jacket]

As for lucha, I recommend reading these two articles by Matt Farmer:

 

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/10/08/the-importance-of-lucha-libre-in-september-part-one/

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/10/28/the-importance-of-lucha-libre-in-september-part-two/

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't know what the fuck to do with something like Muhammad Ali vs Antonio Inoki but it really should probably be on the list.

 

Speaking of Inoki, the match where he beat Gotch in '72 drew a huge rating and was the reason why NJPW was given a prime time slot on Friday nights. He had a number of other important fights too -- the interpromotional match with Strong Kobayashi, the shoot angle with Tiger Jeet Singh, his MMA bout with Ruska, which drew a huge TV rating, then in the early 80s the promotion vs. promotion angle with IWE.

[Loss]

The Destroyer match from '63 that drew the massive rating that is escaping my memory right now

The Destroyer vs Toyonobori - JWA 02/26/65

Ric Flair vs Sting - Clash I (More for the enormous television rating, that it destroyed Wrestlemania IV and that it set in motion a series of events that destroyed JCP than that it "made Sting a superstar in one night")

Inoki vs Ali (Not sure if that would be considered wrestling or MMA, technically)

The Choshu shoot kick match

Hulk Hogan vs iron Sheik - WWF 1/23/84

Lou Thesz vs Buddy Rogers - 6/30/61

Larry Zbyszko vs Bruno Sammartino at Shea - 8/9/80

Bruno vs Koloff title change

Undertaker vs Lesnar WM30

[Grimmas]

Would Jumbo-Misawa title change in 90 be anywhere on this list? Seems like a huge deal at the time and in hindsight.

 

I am curious about the Hogan-Andre WM3 vs Main Event debate? Biggest crowd in arena vs biggest audience on TV at the time.

 

Does anybody know anything about New Zealand, Austraila, other countries like India, and places in South America or whatever? Anything there?

 

Carlos Colon drew some huge crowds in PR, any one or two matches stand out from that?

[Al]

Why is a big house or a good angle important? You wouldn't need Flair-Kerry 12/25/82, you would need the match where David (or better, Kevin) was successful enough for Fritz to warrant that his territory should be carried by his young and skinnier rookie boys.

I don't think Fritz and Doris having sex counts as a match.

[GOTNW]

 

Would Jumbo-Misawa title change in 90 be anywhere on this list? Seems like a huge deal at the time and in hindsight.

There's no such thing.

[Loss]

Yeah, wasn't a title change or even a title match, but was a pivotal match and yes, should be listed.

[WingedEagle]

 

I am curious about the Hogan-Andre WM3 vs Main Event debate? Biggest crowd in arena vs biggest audience on TV at the time.

 

 

Main Event may have set a rating, but beyond Mania 4 it didn't have many legs from a historical basis. Not even relevant from WWE's historical perspective.

[Ricky Jackson]

I think Savage vs Steamboat from Mania 3 is pretty important as far as influencing future wrestlers in terms of working and match layout, in ways that are still evident today. Sure there were other matches just as exciting and mold-breaking (away from the 70s style, or however you want to categorize what came before) from the time, but because it happened on such an historic and widely seen card its legend became far greater.

[Grimmas]

I think Savage vs Steamboat from Mania 3 is pretty important as far as influencing future wrestlers in terms of working and match layout, in ways that are still evident today. Sure there were other matches just as exciting and mold-breaking (away from the 70s style, or however you want to categorize what came before) from the time, but because it happened on such an historic and widely seen card its legend became far greater.

Yeah, that's a great point.

 

Along those lines, Shawn-Razor Ladder Match at WM10 and the TLC match might deserve credit for the same thing.

 

I think Austin-Bret WM13 would be something to look at too, ushered in the Attitude Era.

[Childs]

Childs, whats the "most important" match in 1980s New Japan? Hogan vs Inoki? One of the Choshu vs Fujinami matches?

I don't know that there's a single one. But I'd include the 4/3/83 Choshu-Fujinami, the Hogan-Inoki and something to represent the kickoff of the UWF invasion--maybe the 3/26/86 elimination match? Also, probably one of the Dynamite-Tiger Mask matches for the same reason someone recommended Savage-Steamboat.

 

From All-Japan, the Funk "retirement" match, Jumbo-Tenryu 6/5/89 and maybe one of the Choshu-Jumbo tags would all be candidates.

[Childs]

Why is a big house or a good angle important? You wouldn't need Flair-Kerry 12/25/82, you would need the match where David (or better, Kevin) was successful enough for Fritz to warrant that his territory should be carried by his young and skinnier rookie boys.

I don't even know what this means. The Christmas match pulls together both the Flair-Kerry story and the dawn of the Freebirds feud. Seems pretty obvious.

[elliott]

 

Childs, whats the "most important" match in 1980s New Japan? Hogan vs Inoki? One of the Choshu vs Fujinami matches?

I don't know that there's a single one. But I'd include the 4/3/83 Choshu-Fujinami, the Hogan-Inoki and something to represent the kickoff of the UWF invasion--maybe the 3/26/86 elimination match? Also, probably one of the Dynamite-Tiger Mask matches for the same reason someone recommended Savage-Steamboat.

 

From All-Japan, the Funk "retirement" match, Jumbo-Tenryu 6/5/89 and maybe one of the Choshu-Jumbo tags would all be candidates.

 

 

All Japan I was also thinking of these two:

Funk Brothers vs Abby & Sheik - although, which is the most famous one, the 77 tag league?

Funk Brothers vs Brody & Snuka 1981 Tag League (Hansen Shows up)

 

The January 86 Choshu tag feels like it should be there. I kinda wanted to include the formation of the triple crown match, but that match is disappointing and 6/5/89 is right there.

 

No one has mentioned it yet, and I'm having trouble picking between their first and second match together, but Takada vs Muto has to be talked about. Their 10/95 match is more famous, but the 1/96 one is the show BIschoff went too which gave him the NWO vs WCW idea.

[El-P]

Hell in the Cell II. The debut of "let's fall from high places" style of big PPV matches, which gave us the upcoming TLC matches (much more than the Shawn vs Razor matches actually) and all that kind of bullshit.