Most Important Matches in History

[The Chief]

Would Buddy Rogers vs Pat O'Connor from Comiskey in 1961 count?

[Al]

Thesz/Leone. Wrestling' first $100000 gate.

[elliott]

Rogers vs O'Connor is a good one. Rogers' first NWA title win. 38,622 fans drawing $148,000. Also, apparently, the first ever closed circuit wrestling event. We also can watch it and see that its a great match.

 

Since Thesz vs Leone was mentioned as the first $100,000 gate, I figured I'd point out NWA & NY State Athletic Commission World Champ Jim Londos beat Ed Lewis 9/20/34 at Wrigley Field in front of 35,265 fans drawing $96, 302 which was the record gate until Thesz vs Leone topped it 18 years later.

 

A couple more old matches that deserve mention are oddly enough a pair of matches from non-WON HOFer Dick Shikat:

Jim Londos vs Dick Shikat 6/6/1930. I don't have an attendance figure at the moment but quoting historian Steve Yohe: "Londos wins NY World Title from Dick Shikat when his bosses quit worrying about legitimate wrestlers and realizes it's the money that counts. Londos establishes himself as the greatest draw in the history of the sport. Also becomes the first wrestler to be recognized by a national (well almost) organization the NBA. (No... boxing, not basketball)."

 

Danno O'Mahoney vs Dick Shikat 3/21/1936 MSG drawing 7,000. This is Yohe's pick for the most important match in the history of wrestling. O'Mahoney had beaten Ed Don George (AWA) & Jim Londos (NWA) to become the last ever truly undisputed world heavyweight champion. He was a former football player and was a total performer (meaning, he wasn't a shooter). Shikat was an old school shooter and took the belt from Danno after 7 months.

 

Yohe says "It changed everything. Chaos followed. By the end of the year at least 10 men had laid claim to the "World" title (Shikat, O'Mahoney, Ali Baba, Daniel Boone Savage, David Levin, Everett Marshall, Yvon Robert, Dean Detton, Vincent Lopez & Cliff Olsen) and three major title lines had been formed."

 

That's a match I'd really like to learn more about.

[The Chief]

It might be a bit of a stretch as it's difficult to classify monetarily, but Lawler vs. Funk in the empty arena deserves consideration. I feel it's the epitome of Memphis wrestling and it still gets talked about today. It's the ultimate example of thinking outside the box. For better or worse, all the crazy gimmick stuff we have today was born from that

 

While I'm on a Lawler kick, how about Lawler vs. Kaufman? Using mainstream media to further a wrestling angle was pretty revolutionary.

 

And to further my Lawler kick, I just read he's bringing back The King's Court to SmackDown. Awesome!

[Indikator]

 

Why is a big house or a good angle important? You wouldn't need Flair-Kerry 12/25/82, you would need the match where David (or better, Kevin) was successful enough for Fritz to warrant that his territory should be carried by his young and skinnier rookie boys.

I don't even know what this means. The Christmas match pulls together both the Flair-Kerry story and the dawn of the Freebirds feud. Seems pretty obvious.

 

 

There is no historical significance to those elements. Freebirds were already established in Georgia, Flair vs Kerry is just another main event program. The wrestling business would not have been impacted in the slightest had these things not happened. The first turn in wrestling was important, not Michael Hayes slamming the door on Kerry. The first time they did the tire angle was kinda important, not all the other times it was rehashed. Wrestling always tries out new stuff, when it works out it will be copied, if it doesn't work out then nobody will repeat that mistake. And Lawler vs Funk could be seen as such a mistake (at least from a 1980's promoters perspective). Also, Lawler vs Kaufman is not exactly original either, for instance you had Burt Lancaster vs Gorgeous George.

Some of you might have seen the early 1910's footage of Gustav Fristensky vs Josef Smejkal on Youtube. That was an attempt to introduce biweekly outdoors shows in Vienna between major draws (Stanislaus Zbyszko, Dr. Benjamin Roller, the absolute Euro elite). They probably tried the more American approach, which means trying rip off gamblers. And most of these shows only had a single match, unlike the Euro tournament mode with 3-7 matches a night. But that idea was abandoned after about two months. And 20 years later Henri Irslinger tried to introduce biweekly shows in that town in the style of UK All-In Wrestling shows. In the end that didn't work out either. So these flops did not change the Vienna wrestling scene, meaning that they were not that important. On the other hand you have the Masked Marvel. Remember how they had a NYC tournament where Mort Henderson gained infamy as the Masked Marvel? Well you had that exact angle a couple years before in Vienna. "Coincidentially" Stanislaus Zybszko was at both tournaments. They even replicated an angle, in which the Masked Marvel flees through the city to avoid the press so that his identity can be kept hidden (horse carriage in Vienna, motorcycle in NYC). So the Vienna tournament was important, and if you consider the influx of masked men in the US you can say the same for Mort Henderson. The Vienna masked man probably was a government worker called Franz Höllriegl, one magazine apparently got the confirmation by getting official police info

 

Now regarding lucha libre trios matches, it is possible that Santo vs Los Misioneros de la Muerte led to a resurgence of trios matches. But if you look at random months on the homepage of thecubsfan, that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case. I have noticed that by the early 1980's wrestling cards worldwide tend to bloat up a lot and often enough have 6-9 matches.

And if you wonder how trios matches probably got popular, look at the 1952 EMLL opposition which had TV (if they weren't primarily a TV promotion).

 

" indy (SAT) 03/15/1952 Arena Televicentro, Miguel Hidalgo, Distrito Federal [Lucha Libre 31]

1) El Bulldog, Lobo Negro, Medico Asesino b Abel Krim, Gorillta Flores, Tonina Jackson

 

Event Notes: noted as first trios match in Mexico (though Guadalajara at least was doing trios prior) "

 

Edit: I forgot to praise the line

 

Using mainstream media to further a wrestling angle was pretty revolutionary

 

And while we're at it. One of the Dump Matsumoto vs Chigusa Nagayo hair vs. hair matches was important. Not because it was an awesome display, had a great big match feeling and was captivating. It was important because they lost their TV slot due to blood iirc.

[Childs]

It seems you're overthinking this. By the standards you're suggesting, only a handful of matches are important. If a match sets up and/or symbolizes a memorable period in a successful territory, I think it fits what Elliott and Steven are looking for. My sense is they're casting a wide net to set up a voting list for their HOF project, not looking for the seven elemental matches in wrestling history (though that's an interesting side discussion).

[ohtani's jacket]

I think you need to make a distinction between trios matches and trios groups. Of course there were trios matches before the Misioneros, and even trios groups. La Ola Blanca spring to mind as a famous rudo trio that existed prior to the Misioneros. But if you look at the history of Golden Age lucha, tag teams were far more prevalent than trios groups. Even La Ola Blanca were primarily a tag team. The Misioneros were responsible for an explosion of trio groups. They may, or may not, be responsible for trios wrestling becoming the standard match type in Mexico but it's hard to imagine that there would have been so many copy-cat groups had they not been red hot. Not only that, but they broke the barriers down for lighter wrestlers main eventing.

 

How much the Misioneros' run means now is interesting. Trios wrestling may still be the predominant form of wrestling in Mexico, but the number of trios groups has dramatically reduced from the mid-80s and you'd be hard pressed to argue that there's an influential trio group in Mexico today. The Misioneros certainly changed the landscape as tag title belts are nowhere near as important or prestigious as they were in the 40s-60s (when there were no sanctioned trios belts.)

[Loss]

Hell in the Cell II. The debut of "let's fall from high places" style of big PPV matches, which gave us the upcoming TLC matches (much more than the Shawn vs Razor matches actually) and all that kind of bullshit.

 

Yeah, the Shawn-Razor matches were more influential on 90s indy wrestling than something like TLC, I think. Guys like Sabu, Candido, Snow and others started doing ladder matches on the indy scene and it sort of became the hottest gimmick match out there. There is influence on TLC for sure, but I don't think that's the primary legacy of those matches, or at the very least, it's not a straight line. The Hardys evolved from being backyarders, which had more in common with Foley's type of crazy bumping than Shawn's type of crazy bumping. Probably a bigger conversation than this thread and I still need to sort out what I'd say about it, but an interesting topic.

[Grimmas]

Odd choice, but what about Terry Funk vs Sabu vs Shane Douglas? Kind of a legendary deal that everybody talked about and put ECW on the map. Also, triple threats have become a real staple since then.

[Blehschmidt]

I'd call that a good choice Grimmas. I know there were matches involving three wrestlers that happened before that, but they were few and far between. The explosion of Triple Threat or 3 Way Dances in the 90's and into today all seem to stem from that one.

[dedhemingway]

Does Douglas/Scorpio, with Douglas throwing down the NWA title count, or would the importance be on the promo after?

[PeteF3]

Think that's all about the promo. The match itself is inconsequential--Douglas' opponent could have been literally anybody.

[elliott]

I did think about the Douglas vs Scorpio + Douglas promo match as well after Grimmas mentioned triple threat match. But I agree its more about the post match speech.

 

Actually some picks to think about from ECW, and note that I hated these matches when I watched them last, are the Eddy Guerrero vs Dean Malenko 2/3 Falls match and whatever the most famous RVD vs Jerry Lynn match is (Living Dangerously?). They should really be considered just in terms of popularizing the souless workrate matches we all used to think were good and then pushing that to the next step (now with WEAPONZ and a whistle). They are also highly regarded matches/rivalries in circles outside of our own.

 

Just in terms of sheer "fame" I'd argue the most famous ECW match is the Terry Funk vs Sabu barbed wire match. I don't know if its the most important ECW match ever, but there's an argument for it.

[El-P]

Actually some picks to think about from ECW, and note that I hated these matches when I watched them last, are the Eddy Guerrero vs Dean Malenko 2/3 Falls match and whatever the most famous RVD vs Jerry Lynn match is (Living Dangerously?). They should really be considered just in terms of popularizing the souless workrate matches we all used to think were good and then pushing that to the next step

 

Blame Eddie Guerrero & Dean Malenko for this. I have called the infamous sequence of rolling in and out of pinfall positions the Eddielenko for years now. They did it that way first. Of course you can go back to Flair doing his own slow-mo version that he did all the time which was ending up with a backslide, but the prototype for the years (decades) to come is right there, courtesy of working-in-a-vacuum Deano Machino and Eddie, who wasn't always that great.

 

RVD and Jerry Lynn only followed in their footsteps and amped it up a notch. That being said, although it became part of Jerry Lynn's worst tendencies later (for the record, I think Lynn was an excellent worker at his best), you have to put the blame on RVD, as he showed way before working with Lynn that he was a fan of that kind of stuff, doing it with Sabu in 96 already. Lynn only managed to work his own way into it and get maybe RVD's best match ever by indulging his style. But you have to point at RVD first for pushing the Eddielenko sequence (although one could argue some Nitro cruiserweight involving Dean and the luchadors were also guilty of this way before RVD vs Lynn made it super fashionable).

[elliott]

What are the Women's matches to consider?

Mildred Burke vs June Byers 8/25/54 Atlanta, GA

Dump vs Chigusa Hair vs Hair x2

Bull Nakano vs Aja Kong (Cage Match) 11/14/90

Hokuto vs Kandori 4/2/93

 

What else? Presumably one of the Chigusa vs Lioness matches (2/87?) What about Jackie Sato matches? The 8/22/85 pair of matches? Anything else from the interpromotional era? DreamRush? DreamSlam II main event? Thunderqueen? One of the Aja vs Kansai matches? Kudo vs Toyoda Exploding Barbed Wire?

[WingedEagle]

Not to derail things, but it seems like this transitioning from important matches to great matches. Perhaps I have a rather high bar and only a few matches seems truly important, whether for their impact on the business or having an enduring legacy -- two admittedly very distinct conclusions.

[ohtani's jacket]

What are the Women's matches to consider?

Mildred Burke vs June Byers 8/25/54 Atlanta, GA

Dump vs Chigusa Hair vs Hair x2

Bull Nakano vs Aja Kong (Cage Match) 11/14/90

Hokuto vs Kandori 4/2/93

 

What else? Presumably one of the Chigusa vs Lioness matches (2/87?) What about Jackie Sato matches? The 8/22/85 pair of matches? Anything else from the interpromotional era? DreamRush? DreamSlam II main event? Thunderqueen? One of the Aja vs Kansai matches? Kudo vs Toyoda Exploding Barbed Wire?

 

For Japan, the All Japan Woman's Pro Wrestling Championship all-star shows on 9/10/55 and 9/11/55 were important and on 1/4/56 and 1/5/56 too. The Japan Woman's Pro Wrestling Association's first show on 4/29/67 was important too, and Moolah's tour from 3/2 to 4/2 of '68. Matsunaga breaking away and forming All Japan Women's Pro-Wrestling in June of that year was even more influential. All Japan's first TV show on Fuji TV on 12/1/68 drew a massive 18.9% rating and was another key moment.

 

The first AJW show at Budokan deserves a mention too -- 11/1/77 headlined by a 60 minute Jackie Sato vs. Maki Ueda match.

 

1981 saw a passing of the torch with three title changes on the 2/25 show. Jaguar beat Jackie Sato for the WWWA title, Nancy Kumi & Ayumi Hori beat Mami Kumano & Devil Masami for the WWWA tag team titles and Mimi Hagiwara beat Yumi Ikeshita for the All Pacific title. That was a huge deal at the time.

 

Dump Matsumoto's retirement was significant in terms of the impact it had on business.

 

You can probably point to some match where the style began predominantly go-go-go, too.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

Big Daddy vs Giant Haystacks, June 18th 1981, Wembley

 

If I were a podcast guy, I think I would have a show about whether this match killed the territory.

 

The two matches that old time British fans always talk about are the Kendo Nagasaki vs. Count Bartelli mask vs. mask match and the White Angel vs. Doctor Death mask match. People probably don't think of British wrestling when they think mask matches but Bartelli had worn his for 20 year when Nagasaki unmasked him and Doctor Death was a massive draw. Neither of these matches drew huge crowds by US or Japanese standards but the number of people who claimed they were there has grown exponentially over the years.

 

The McManus vs. Pallo Cup Final Day match from '62 is another major match in British wrestling history and drew a huge television rating. People often talk about the night Prince Philip was at the Royal Albert Hall but that was more for his appearance than any particular match.

 

If you're going to include Daddy vs. Haystacks then you should also include Daddy vs. Quinn from Wembley.

 

I'm pretty sure Bert Assirati had some big matches back in the day. I know of one famous one against The French Angel Maurice Tillet.

 

If we're talking about important matches then the success of the first TV show ought to carry some weight. The matches on that show were Francis St. Clair Gregory vs. Mike Marino and Cliff Beaumont vs.Bert Royal. The peak of the TV success was an episode in 1965 that drew 7.3 million viewers. The matches were Roy Bull Davis vs. Billy Howes and Johnny Eagle vs. Ken Cadman. Not the most famous pair of matches in British wrestling history but possibly the most watched.

Big Daddy vs Giant Haystacks is the one people remember most widely.

[ohtani's jacket]

I doubt you'd find that many people these days that remember a match from '81. Old-time fans don't remember it with any fondness. It killed the territory and was shit. People may remember Big Daddy and his entrance but I bet the majority of those remember Big Daddy from his post-81 years much like I first saw Hogan after he'd wrestled Andre. Anyway, it's not the most important match in British wrestling history. Let's bury that.

[JerryvonKramer]

People do remember it. It comes up here and there. There's a big distinction between "old-time fans", and "the man on the street".

 

My girlfriend mentioned in passing how she loved Big Daddy as a kid the other day. After reading your post we had this conversation:

 

Me: Can you name any of Big Daddy's opponents? Or any big matches he had?

 

Her: Giant Haystacks! At Wembley.

 

Me: Can you name any other British wrestlers from that time? Or maybe any other opponents of Big Daddy's?

 

Her: No

 

I suspect I could walk down the street and have that same conversation over and over again assuming the people are over a certain age.

[JerryvonKramer]

Daddy vs Haystacks is the sort of thing that would come up in passing in completely random contexts.

 

Noel Edmund's House Party, say, or The Generation Game, or whatever.

 

It's something in the wider cultural ether.

[cheapshot]

Big Daddy is the most famous Wrestler from this era of British Wrestling, and that was the most famous match in that era of wrestling.

 

"The one where Haystacks falls out of the ring in to a flower bed" is how my late Granddad remembered it. The show drew TV audience of around 16-17 million. It was the peak of UK wrestling, and thus is hugely important.

[ohtani's jacket]

So are you saying your girlfriend watched Daddy vs. Haystacks in '81 or that she knows it from Noel Edmund's House Party and the Generation Game? The bout may be famous but that doesn't make it important.

 

What is so important about Big Daddy vs. Giant Haystacks?

[cheapshot]

It was such an important match, that even the Guardian Newspaper reminisce about it: https://www.theguardian.com/observer/osm/story/0,6903,391071,00.html

[ohtani's jacket]

It's important because there was a tiny article about it in the Guardian that's not even about the match? 1981 wasn't the peak of British wrestling and the rating for Daddy vs. Haystacks has never been proven. It's speculative like the rating for McManus/Pallo in '62.

 

If Haystacks vs. Daddy was so important why did they never run Wembley again? Why did so many guys jump to Dixon the following year? How come Dale Martin/Joint Promotions began a massive slide thereafter? I give Daddy all the credit in the world for picking up Dale Martin & Joint's business in the mid-to-late 70s and sustaining it for a good ten years longer than it might have lasted after British wrestling's peak in the mid-60s, but arguing that Daddy/Haystacks is the most important match, or even show, in that era of British wrestling reminds me of the argument that Big Egg Universe was the crown jewel of Joshi shows.