Most Important Matches in History

[ohtani's jacket]

Also, after reading Matt Farmer's article and checking cubsfan's site, you really need to add the Santo vs. Aguayo mask vs. hair match to the list. The date was 10/3/75.

[Mrzfn]

I'm interested in the thought process of those listing Lesnar/Undertaker, in some cases as the only important match of the past 20 years or so. The Streak breaking the way it did was surprisingly, certainly, but did it have much lasting effect? Lesnar got a big(ger) push for a while but I'm unclear if it had much effect on the business, and it kind of all came to nothing long term. I realize a match can be important without changing the business, but I'm wondering what sets it apart apart from the surprise finish.

[elliott]

Its hard to say how important or memorable something like Brock vs Taker is/will be because we're still so close to it that we lack any sort of perspective. I added it to the master list because somebody mentioned it elsewhere in the thread.

 

Thanks OJ for adding dates on the British matches. I'll fix that now. Also, do you think I got the right 5 Baba matches?

 

Edit:

Also, good call on the Santo vs Perro match. I knew there was an obvious Santo match I was missing from his face run. If you had to order the lucha matches in importance, historical significance, whatever, would you have the Santo vs Perro match above or below Solitario vs Wagner? My gut reaction is "always pick the Santo match."

[ohtani's jacket]

I would be tempted to add Giant Baba vs. Dick the Bruiser (11/24/65). This was the night where Baba won Rikidozan's vacant NWA International Heavyweight Championship -- a clear sign that the JWA was building around Baba in the wake of Rikidozan's death.

 

The '67-71 period was one of the hottest in Japanese wrestling history with nightly sellouts and prime time TV on Fridays and Mondays. Inoki and Baba were the top drawing team in that period. I'm not sure what their biggest match was during that period but they headlined against plenty of big American names.

 

I also mentioned Baba winning the NWA title from Race. Whether that was as important as the first win over Brisco I'm not sure.

[JerryvonKramer]

Margaret Thatcher and the Queen both liked Big Daddy.

 

Paul McCartney was a fan of Giant Haystacks and put him in this film: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_My_Regards_to_Broad_Street_(film)

 

They were just as famous only more recent.

 

If the Londos match was too long ago for the analogy how about Blassie / Tolos?

[cheapshot]

Parv & Alan,

 

I get that Haystacks and Daddy were household names, and still are to some extent years after their deaths, but people having some vague idea that they fought at "Wembley" doesn't make it the most important match in British wrestling history. Not when they sold out Wembley two years prior with Daddy vs. Quinn and not when it led to a downturn in wrestling's popularity instead of adding to it like McManus/Pallo did. Aside from the fact that Daddy vs. Haystacks was held at Wembley Arena and not the Wembley Town Hall, I can't think of a single reason why Daddy/Haystacks was better, or more important, than McManus/Pallo, other than the generation that witnessed McManus vs. Pallo has largely died out.

 

McManus/Pallo was the better match, had the better build, did the better rating (per head of population/TV set), led to greater things in terms of wrestling's popularity, and the pair hobnobbed with the Queen Mother, the Duke of Edinburgh, Sandie Shaw, the Beatles and Richard Attenborough not bloody Noel Edmund and Bruce Foresyth. Wrestling was never more mainstream or accepted in England than it was in the 60s.

 

The reason I mentioned the match not being well remembered is that I don't think people are actually reminiscing upon the match. 1981 was a long time ago. People may have fond memories of Botham in the Ashes but the better judge of how important the Botham Ashes were is how relevant they were at the time. I don't think the Haystacks/Daddy match mattered a month later let alone a year. They actually rode a re-match into the ground when Daddy won convincingly enough. I already mentioned knowing about Andre vs. Hogan long before I ever saw it and I think Daddy vs. Haystacks is folklore at best.

 

And to be frank, if that's the most important match in British wrestling history then the history of British wrestling is pretty sad. Thankfully. it's not -- on both accounts.

 

 

I think your counter points are more than fair. I am basing a lot of what I am saying purely on anecdotal evidence of people who watched during the late 70s early 80s run. I also will admit my Big Daddy bias.

[ohtani's jacket]

Margaret Thatcher and the Queen both liked Big Daddy.

 

Paul McCartney was a fan of Giant Haystacks and put him in this film: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_My_Regards_to_Broad_Street_(film)

 

They were just as famous only more recent.

 

If the Londos match was too long ago for the analogy how about Blassie / Tolos?

 

The Royals were fans of wrestling long before the Crabtrees got together and thought up the Daddy gimmick. Here's a little excerpt for you:

 

"An entry in Labour cabinet minister Richard Crossman's diary for 1968 recounts a meeting with an unusually jovial Her Majesty The Queen, who is described as "writhing" in delight at the ringmasters' exploits."

 

I believe it was the Duke of Kent who confirmed that the Queen used to "sit up" at 4 o'clock each Saturday and watch the wrestling.And there's that famous story of Princess Anne meeting McManus and remarking: "I didn't recognise you with your clothes on."

 

McManus was buddy buddy with Thatcher and John Major. I'm 100% sure that McManus was a Tory.

 

I'm sure Daddy and Haystacks had plenty of celeb fans. Another oft-told story is the time Frank Sinatra approached Haystacks backstage at the Royal Albert Hall and told him that British wrestlers were the best entertainers in the world.

 

But we're talking about Mick McManus. The main even inspired Peter Blake to paint wrestler portraits. The same Peter Blake who did the cover to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

 

No matter how you slice it, he was infinitely cooler than Crabtree.

[khawk20]

As far as AWA matches go, I can think of a couple that stand out in the spirit of this thread.

 

Nick Bockwinkel beating Verne Gagne for the AWA title in November of 1975 is one. For the AWA itself, it transitioned it's main star, Verne Gagne, into a part-time mode and marked an almost completely different philosophy in booking the Champion since he was a heel and was going to be in place for a long time. It was a huge and welcome switch from the lengthy reign of Verne, who at that point had exhausted all the angles and challengers that the fans were willing to see.

It also gave the world Nick Bockwinkel as a singles star and a much larger platform for Bobby Heenan to perform on.

 

The 1983 Super Sunday match between Bockwinkel and Hulk Hogan may also merit inclusion here. It is a devisive point in discussion of the career trajectory of both the AWA and of Hulk Hogan. Would he have propelled the AWA forward to new heights? Would Vince have grabbed him anyway? What was the actual planned finish vs. the result of the match? Was it the final catalyst in Vince deciding that Hogan was the one to carry his vision forward?

It's a serious watermark in AWA history, and given the prominence of the promotion it's value cannot be overlooked.

 

There may be more but those came to mind immediately.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

Margaret Thatcher and the Queen both liked Big Daddy.

 

Paul McCartney was a fan of Giant Haystacks and put him in this film: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_My_Regards_to_Broad_Street_(film)

 

They were just as famous only more recent.

 

If the Londos match was too long ago for the analogy how about Blassie / Tolos?

The Royals were fans of wrestling long before the Crabtrees got together and thought up the Daddy gimmick. Here's a little excerpt for you:

 

"An entry in Labour cabinet minister Richard Crossman's diary for 1968 recounts a meeting with an unusually jovial Her Majesty The Queen, who is described as "writhing" in delight at the ringmasters' exploits."

 

I believe it was the Duke of Kent who confirmed that the Queen used to "sit up" at 4 o'clock each Saturday and watch the wrestling.And there's that famous story of Princess Anne meeting McManus and remarking: "I didn't recognise you with your clothes on."

 

McManus was buddy buddy with Thatcher and John Major. I'm 100% sure that McManus was a Tory.

 

I'm sure Daddy and Haystacks had plenty of celeb fans. Another oft-told story is the time Frank Sinatra approached Haystacks backstage at the Royal Albert Hall and told him that British wrestlers were the best entertainers in the world.

 

But we're talking about Mick McManus. The main even inspired Peter Blake to paint wrestler portraits. The same Peter Blake who did the cover to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

 

No matter how you slice it, he was infinitely cooler than Crabtree.

 

This is all fine. No one said McManus wasn't famous or that Big Daddy was cool.

 

They simply said that Big Daddy vs. Giant Haystacks was a very famous match which did that rarest of things: crossed over into mainstream discourse.

 

There's no issue with having numerous British matches on a list of "most important matches".

 

Or are you arguing for the exclusion of Daddy vs. Haystacks altogether on some grounds?

[ohtani's jacket]

I'd put it on the list. I just wouldn't celebrate it.

[Microstatistics]

Jumbo vs. Tenryu (6/5/89) - The ancestor of modern mainstream wrestling.

 

A more outside the box choice: Batista vs. Mark Henry (1/6/2006) - Batista got injured and was out for 10 months. This basically made and solidified Cena as the sole top dog in WWE and the rest is history.

[elliott]

I dig the outside of the box choice. There's got to be more stuff like that.

[Mrzfn]

If we're talking modern, I'd argue that the first Cena/Rock match and then the big Cena/Punk match in 2011 shaped the entire direction of the company, between the two of them. It certainly turbo charged both the push to emphasize part time guys during 'Mania season and the idea that "indy" guys could actually be money players.

[elliott]

What US/Canada matches are we missing from the pre Cable TV but still TV era? Say 1948-1980?

 

Stuff already mentioned:

1. Lou Thesz vs Baron Michele Leone 05/21/52
2. Buddy Rogers vs Pat O’Connor 06/30/61
3. Lou Thesz vs Buddy Rogers Toronto 63
4. Bruno vs Koloff 01/18/71
5. Bockwinkel vs Gagne 11/75
6. Larry Zbyszko vs Bruno Sammartino at Shea - 8/9/80

edit - I'll go ahead and Add:

7. Bruno Sammartino vs Buddy Rogers 05/17/63

 

double edit. Forgot to add:

Bruno vs Superstar Graham (which had been mentioned I just hadn't included into the master list yet.)

[JerryvonKramer]

Dory vs Brisco would be a lock, Tolos vs Blassie also

[elliott]

Did you have a specific Dory Jr vs Brisco match in mind Parv?

 

Good call on Tolos vs Blassie. That reminds me of the famous Pepper Gomez vs Ray Stevens. Does anyone have the date for that?

 

Kinda feel like all the NWA title switches up until...seriously looking at the list like Sting in 90 are decent options to go on a list like this.

[JerryvonKramer]

With Dory vs. Brisco, because the match toured it is difficult to pin down one date specifically. When Meltzer recalls the match, he's probably thinking of a time he saw it live on the West Coast somewhere. When Larry Matysik recalls it, he's almost certainly thinking of a St. Louis match etc. etc.

 

Probably the one most remembered is 2/8/72 from Bayfront because it has lengthy footage with Gordon Solie salvinating for the duration, they gave over the full hour of Florida TV to it.

 

I'd put this one over the 74 one in Japan which is a dry, technical affair without much heat or action. The Feb 72 one is a very good all-action showcase for the match, so symbolically maybe it could fill in.

 

I'm not sure about including ALL title switches since so many of them weren't that meaningful.

 

Maybe the big ticket ones would be:

 

Dory beating Kiniski, 2/11/69

Brisco beating Harley, 7/20/73

Terry beating Brisco 12/10/75

Harley beating Terry 2/6/77

Flair beating Harley, Starrcade 83, 11/24/83

 

Anyone disagree?

 

Would also chuck in: Sting vs. Flair, Clash 1

[JerryvonKramer]

That 72 match can be tough to find, so here for anyone interested:

[Busterira]

How about JYD vs Michael Hayes in 1980.

[elliott]

JYD vs Hayes is a great call.

 

Great stuff on Dory vs Jack. And thanks for posting that match Parv. I was trying to find it the other day but gave up when it occurred to me I wasn't sure what the date was and figured I'd find it later. Awesome.

 

I'd argue for the following NWA title changes in addition to the ones you mentioned:

Rogers over O'Connor 06/30/61

Thesz over Rogers in Toronto

Agree with all your picks.

 

Something like Baba winning the title was a huge deal for him because of how the NWA title was treated in Japan.

 

You also gotta consider that in theory we'd have the match that crowned the first NWA Champ, but Brown was awarded the title. And the longest title reign started with Thesz being awarded the title.

 

You can also look at unrecognized switches like the Thesz vs Carpentier matches and see some interesting shit.

 

Even stuff like Dusty's first win and Kerry's first win are super memorable/all time feel good moments. The Steamboat changes aren't important but are memorable and all time classics so I feel ok about including them in my exaggeration. Certainly not all, but damn near most.

[Al]

Thesz/Carpentier is a big one for essentially spawning multiple alternate world titles.

[Al]

Did anyone mention Carpentier/Rocca vs Graham/Bruiser?