The Honor Roll: ROH's 50 Greatest Wrestlers Ever Project - RESULTS DISCUSSION

[Cap]

I had Nigel a touch higher myself, not by a lot though. I think Nigel's feud with Dragon was pretty easily better than just about anything Aries did. I think Nigel's title run was better on the whole than either Aries run. Everyone works hard, but Nigel always struck me as a guy who over-performed, who gutted and willed his way to being a good wrestler. That showed and made him stand out in some really interesting and unique ways.

 

All that said, they are razor close though, no doubt about that. I love me some Aries. I can definitely see a case for him being higher based on his charisma, title runs, longevity, taking the belt off Joe, and just being an incredibly consistent and exciting wrestler.

[bradhindsight]

Aries got the nod over Nigel for me because of his noted tag work. He was a real flexible worker/character in his run. He had the extra year also. I think on my final list they are back-to-back (submitting mine shortly) so very close.

[Mad Dog]

I docked Nigel a lot because I always felt he was better outside of RoH. Plus, I kind of hated his World Title run.

[supersonic]

Aries had just as compelling of a rivalry with Danielson and helped strengthen the Tag Titles. He also was a crucial piece in saving ROH in 2004.

 

That last part is another reason I'd go with Aries, even though McGuinness has the Pure Title and superior mic and personality work on his resume.

[supersonic]

Another pretty dead even for me was Homicide and Steen. The former was critical for the 2004 golden age boom and delivered numerous moments, plus 2 MVP contender years, while the latter was the lone interesting act during the SBG early days, plus longer tenure, a definite MVP year, and 3 Feuds of the Year.

[Cap]

I liked Aries feud with Dragon a lot, but it isn't as compelling as Nigel's feud with him to me. The tag work was probably the thing I thought hardest about, but I liked Nigel as pure champion.

 

Its a great comparison to be sure. They were neck and neck on my list.

[bradhindsight]

If you guys have the time - the top 10 NON-wrestler poll has received about half the ballots the main poll has so far. Which is fine - it's an optional offshoot and just for (more) fun - but if you're passionate about anything there, be sure to send yours in.

 

I've submitted my non-wrestler ballot so I finally checked the results so far - good variety, and a pretty clear winner.

[Cox]

I wasn't going to submit a non-wrestler ballot, but decided to do so this afternoon. It was harder than I thought. ROH hasn't really used managers during their run, and haven't really had a ton of great announcers either, so while the ones who were great stand out (Nana and Sweeney on the manager side, Prazak on the announcing side), filling out a ballot of ten people can get tough quickly.

[bradhindsight]

The results of the Non-Wrestler poll are up!

 

http://placetobenation.com/the-honor-roll-rohs-top-ten-non-wrestlers-poll-results/

[Cox]

I think I was high vote on Becky and Prazak (which, full disclosure, are two people I have known at various points of my life, though I haven't spoken to either in a number of years).

 

I thought it was interesting that Gabe won the poll, presumably based on his booking, and Punk and Aries both received votes presumably for their training, yet Delirious, who has done both, and has been booking almost as long as Gabe at this point, didn't receive a single vote. I thought that was quite telling at how people view modern ROH.

[bradhindsight]

Punk got his vote for commentary (I remember the voter left a comment), with Aries i'm assuming for his manager/stable work.

 

I also agree with your last point - Adam Pearce was another booker that made it on just one of the 42 ballots.

 

Cary Silkin probably should have finished higher; he actually was a real late nomination by me. It depended how you approached the poll - a lot of ballots didn't have any office. In the same vein, Joe Koff rescued the company and probably deserved a vote in there.

[Mad Dog]

The Truth Martini placement really surprises me as I view him as one of the absolute worst parts of the product for the last 5-6 years.

[Blehschmidt]

I know I have zero room to talk since I didn't vote, but how the fuck did Jade Chung not make that list?

[ShittyLittleBoots]

Kevin Kelly so damn high. I never knew that his work was so liked, I've always thought of him as a very meh commentator.

[bradhindsight]

Part 1 of the Top 50 reveal starts today at noon ET at PTBN - 166-101.

 

111 ballots tabulated with 166 different names getting at least one vote.

[Mad Dog]

Are you going to do any podcasts for this?

[bradhindsight]

Yes.

 

We're aiming to do a results podcast tomorrow night that would come out Friday morning (the top 25 reveal is that day to wrap the project).

 

There's also a show out right now behind the pay wall at F4W with Alan 4L, Joe Gagne and Mike Falcone (who was one of the founders of the project with me).

[bradhindsight]

Here's part 1 from earlier today (apologies, was out of pocket):

 

http://placetobenation.com/the-honor-roll-rohs-50-greatest-wrestlers-ever-part-1-166-101/

[bradhindsight]

One reminder - although we all went through GWE. As with these early results, the most ballots for this group was 6 out of 111 (5.4%) so there is the regular odd ranking (say, ranking non-wrestlers - or Tanahashi real high) on one ballot that supersedes the smaller scores for guys that made a couple.

[bradhindsight]

Big release today - 100-51:

 

http://placetobenation.com/the-honor-roll-rohs-50-greatest-wrestlers-ever-part-2-100-51/

[bradhindsight]

This is where I think you start to really see this factor in:

Early years (2002-2003) – 42
Golden years (2004-2008) – 45
HDNet era (2009-2010) – 8
SBG era (2011-present) – 16

While there were a couple rogue-like ballots that had Ospreay and Scurll, guys like Silas Young and Caprice Coleman finished real low. Taven and ACH are two other examples; I thought they would finish considerably higher. Dijak is buoyed by a #7 vote (per Rich - DD's mother participated), truthfully if that was taken out he'd only be 5-6 spots back anyway.

John Walters was a real good example of getting recognition by a good chunk of voters, but his average ballot spot was always going to be in the 40s.

I thought Xavier got a good amount of respect with the 40 ballots figure also. He is the first champ off the board - the rest are in the top 50. I think you can definitely draw a conclusion that the significance of that held a lot of weight for voters.

[bradhindsight]

#50-26 release today:

 

http://placetobenation.com/the-honor-roll-rohs-50-greatest-wrestlers-ever-part-3-50-26/

[bradhindsight]

And the big reveal - the top 25. 111 ballots, good sample size here. Thought this came out well:

 

http://placetobenation.com/the-honor-roll-rohs-50-greatest-wrestlers-ever-part-4-25-1/

[ShittyLittleBoots]

Lethal getting #1 votes truly surprised me.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

I think if you've been someone that has only been a watcher of ROH the last few years, through what is being called the 'SBG era' then I could make a case for him. His long reigns with the World Title and with the TV Title (and when he held both at the same time of course) made him the focus of the promotion - for better or worse - and I think he did a lot to raise the prestige of the TV Title to where the first Lethal/Briscoe title vs title match seemed to be pretty highly anticipated.

 

His early run, from being in Special K, to being Joe's protege was less remarkable and it really wasn't until he became part of the House of Truth that he really became a main eventer.

 

The more surprising thing to me was Hero getting a No. 1 vote. Now don't get me wrong, I love Hero as much as the next guy but was there ever a period in ROH where he was the man? I was always entertained by him, but for a lot of his run his matches had a lot of comedy (not that precludes him from being highly ranked of course) or he was tagging with Claudio.

 

Looking at the results, I think a lot of people place pretty much exactly where I would have them, although I actually think Colt Cabana deserved a spot in the top 25, as even though he never won the belt, think of his runs there carrying far more weight than someone like Eddie Edwards for example.

 

An excellent project though, so full marks to those that spent the time and effort putting it together. It's made me remember how much between 2004 and 2007/8 ROH was my favourite promotion.