7 replies to this topic

[elliott]

This Satanico vs Lizmark match magically appeared yesterday.

 

 

This was quite the match for a lot of reasons. The first of which is Satanico. He is amazing in this. Classic facial expressions as always but he also does one of the best jobs selling the effect of a chinlock/sleeper better than anyone other than Benoit vs Guerrero from the 96 Super Juniors tournament. Lots of fun classic Satanico trickery as well. Love the subtle low blow he used as a kickout.

 

The other reason this match was amazing is that I'm more convinced than ever that Lizmark fucking sucks. He just cannot have consistently good performances against Satanico who is probably the easiest guy in the history of wrestling to have a good match with other than maybe Flair or Funk. Lizmark has a tendency to dominate their matches and this wasn't really any different in that regard only his mat work looked particularly sloppy and loose in this. The first fall was not good and I get the impression Satanico realized that because he turned his shit up in the 2nd fall and used Lizmark's desire to slap on a hold and sit in it to bust out this classic selling of the chinlock.

 

These two have had a lot of singles matches with each other over the years and you'd assume they would be a classic tecnico vs rudo matchup. They hit it out of the park once in I want to say 1993, but all their other matches I've found to be fairly disappointing in one way or another. This is definitely worth watching and is a great example of someone (Satanico) having a terrific individual performance in a match that wasn't all that great.

 

[alexoblivion]

Weird. Last time I watched this I was more impressed with Lizmark than I was Satanico. I actually thought Lizmark's front facelock was fine, and thought rubbing his forearm in Satanico's eyes was a pretty cool touch as well.

[cad]

When I last watched this match, I thought Lizmark looked pretty washed up, but his fundamentals and title match experience allowed him to hold up his end. Satanico I thought looked as good as ever and gave a strong performance, which is saying something given that I'd long since lost interest in watching him.

 

The other reason this match was amazing is that I'm more convinced than ever that Lizmark fucking sucks. He just cannot have consistently good performances against Satanico who is probably the easiest guy in the history of wrestling to have a good match with other than maybe Flair or Funk. Lizmark has a tendency to dominate their matches and this wasn't really any different in that regard only his mat work looked particularly sloppy and loose in this. The first fall was not good and I get the impression Satanico realized that because he turned his shit up in the 2nd fall and used Lizmark's desire to slap on a hold and sit in it to bust out this classic selling of the chinlock.

 

These two have had a lot of singles matches with each other over the years and you'd assume they would be a classic tecnico vs rudo matchup. They hit it out of the park once in I want to say 1993, but all their other matches I've found to be fairly disappointing in one way or another. This is definitely worth watching and is a great example of someone (Satanico) having a terrific individual performance in a match that wasn't all that great.

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if Satanico boosters are the biggest reason I got so sick of the man. Lizmark had multiple matches with La Parka and Jerry Estrada, and the average match in those series was better than the average match in the Satanico series. I agree that he took too much of the Satanico fights, but most of his matches don't go like that. Using just the Satanico matches as an indictment on his overall ability is classic tunnel vision. I also question the logic of using "performance vs Satanico" as any sort of barometer. Satanico vs anyone is always going to be a Satanico match, and Satanico matches are the kind where even if he helps "anyone" have a good match the guy isn't going to actually look better in it.

 

But that's how it is with Satanico. Bad matches are always the other guy's fault, any good performance (doesn't even have to be a good match) confirms the great man's ability, and in the end Satanico is still a strong contender for number one all time. Here we have Satanico carrying a sucky guy who didn't actually suck to a decent match. Doesn't really sound like the stuff of alltime greats, as you'd think they should find a way to get the most out of a weak opponent rather than just working around him, but then those guys don't make those incredible Satanico faces in every single fucking match.

[Microstatistics]

I have no idea why Satanico vs. Lizmark matches have a bad rep. Their 84 match is amazing while this is honestly a strong MOTYC for 1998.

 

I disagree with elliot, Lizmark was great here (and is very good in general) and more than holds up his end. Awesome offensive performance and strong selling. That said, Satanico is on a different level with facial expressions, attention to detail and selling.

 

While I agree Lizmark takes up a lot of their matches, they play that into the narrative here as Satanico has that "not this shit again" look during the first fall as Lizmark dominates him yet again. Typically excellent matwork in the first fall. His head selling in the second fall was amazing and the sneaky lowblow is a genius transition, creative and logical. Satanico was moments away from losing the title and needed something extra to turn it around. Loved Satanico's misguided arrogance in the third fall before Lizmark comes back and they go back and forth. Excellent, clever finish as Satanico puts one over on Lizmark by hooking his shoulders during a Lizmark cover, ensuring a double pin and a draw, meaning Satanico (the champion) would retain. **** 1/2

[Jetlag]

Well, here's a match that people just can't seem to agree on.

 

You see a 20 minute Satanico/Lizmark match pop up on YouTube, from the time when Lizmark could still go, and Satanico is always Satanico, and you hope it's some kind of hidden maestro style classic or something. But this is not that. Lizmark utterly dominates Satanico for the first half, before Satanico hits a low blow that looks like shit. Weak payoff, and the 3^rd fall wasn't exactly high end action either. I'm a Lizmark fan and he looked very good here, his wrestling is just poetry, graceful and ultra-tight stuff and he sold as well as humanly possible in the second half, while Satanico was servicable at best. Probably his weakest performance in a singles match that I've seen.

[Microstatistics]

What didn't you like about Satanico's performance? I thought it was pretty much perfect with regards to grappling, rudo character work and selling. 

[Jetlag]

It was just average. I thought you could've slotted any other old guy in his spot and the match would've been the same. It's not like they did anything huge in the 2nd half here.

[cad]

Lizmark in this was good in a Jordan scoring 27 on 10-22 shooting for the Wizards kind of way. Obviously a good showing, especially given where he was physically, but nothing special compared to what he could do in his best years. He still had the good moves and he still knew what to do, but he lacked the explosive athleticism from his prime that made him a top worker. The latest match I can remember in which he looked like he could still run with the guys at that level was the cibernetico from early 1996.