Jump to content


Photo

ThROH The Years: A ROH retrospective podcast


  • Please log in to reply
75 replies to this topic

#21 Laney

Laney
  • Members
  • 428 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 April 2017 - 06:02 PM

Great listen.  Round Robin Challenge was the first ROH show I bought (second that I watched) and it was what really got me hooked.  Low-Ki vs American Dragon is an all-time classic in my eyes.  A few notes:

 

It appeared to me that American Dragon's eyebrow was cut open from a palm strike by Christopher Daniels. 

 

I also seem to recall that the Carnage Crew debuted on this show, but it ended up being cut.

 

Frank Talent seemed like a guy that really enjoyed his job.  I'm not sure the specifics of the PA State Athletic Commission, but I believe this is around the time that they were trying to crack down on the violence.  CZW was the biggest target of the Commission and I recall hearing that Frank Talent stood up for CZW in multiple occasions and felt that they were unfairly picked on.  This post from November 2002 discussed that the PA commission has just made the decision to ban barbed wire, light tubes, and brawing in the crowd.  I believe the regulations evolved further over time and you don't see hardcore/deathmatches in PA like you did in the heyday.  All of the violence seems to have moved to Jersey.

 

This is pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if Frank Talent was trying to use ROH as an example to show others in the commission that pro wrestling on the independent level isn't all extreme violence and that they need to ease up on some of the proposed regulations.



#22 Hobbes

Hobbes
  • Members
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 April 2017 - 02:08 AM

Thanks for the compliments everyone!

 

Johnny: I really need to see some JAPW because the CSC seem great at their act but ill suited in early ROH.

 

Lane: Thanks for the stuff about Frank Talent, that kind of stuff is really interesting to me.

 

Next episode should be up next Sunday-ish, will post here when it is.



#23 jpchicago23

jpchicago23
  • Members
  • 940 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa, Fl but originally from Chicago, Ill.

Posted 17 April 2017 - 08:41 AM

I'm really digging the show as I'm currently diving into the 2000's indy scene myself. I was a little put off by the amount of time spent on the CSC angle as I think the show became focused on that but overall it has been great. Look forward to more episodes.



#24 Hobbes

Hobbes
  • Members
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:01 PM

Episode three of ThROH The Years is here!

 

On this episode Matt and Trevor review ROH's third show, Night of Appreciation. AJ Styles' ROH debut! Is Donnie B the worst announcer in wrestling history? Spanky has a major wardrobe malfunction! A gauntlet series with a surprising good match and a surprisingly disappointing one! Eddie Guerrero delivers one of the most raw real emotional moments in wrestling at a crazy crossroads in his life. We talk about it all and more!

 

http://http://media....ppreciation.mp3



#25 CHVRCHES

CHVRCHES
  • Members
  • 114 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:04 PM

Shoot, I'mma need to find time to re-watch Night of Appreciation before listening to this. Good to see this back in my podcast feed for the week, though.



#26 Hobbes

Hobbes
  • Members
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 April 2017 - 08:35 PM

Shoot, I'mma need to find time to re-watch Night of Appreciation before listening to this. Good to see this back in my podcast feed for the week, though.

 

I'm sorry. (Actually it's not a painful show to watch, it's just missing that one standout match of the first two shows.)



#27 BigBadMick

BigBadMick
  • Members
  • 1399 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Newry, Northern Ireland

Posted 24 April 2017 - 12:09 PM

Umm...Is that link working for anybody?



#28 MFoy

MFoy
  • Members
  • 121 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 April 2017 - 02:15 PM

Try this one:
http://media.blubrry...preciation.mp3>

#29 soup23

soup23
  • Moderators
  • 10257 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 April 2017 - 10:56 AM

Matt's Donnie B impersonation is hilarious. Don't look forward at all to ROH commentary in mine and Loss 2000s pilgrimage

#30 Laney

Laney
  • Members
  • 428 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 30 April 2017 - 02:46 PM

I agree that Night of Appreciation is the weakest of the first three ROH shows.  Those first three shows seem to go together as a trilogy with ROH changing with Road to the Title.  It's not just the booking, but the production as well.  Road to the Title was their first foray into the DVD market and it was about a year later that these first three shows were "remastered" for DVD release.  

 

I think what makes NOA feel the weakest is the lack of a big match main event.  The Guerrero tag match is a fine tribute and a good match, but it just doesn't feel like a main event.  Low Ki vs Styles and Daniels vs Morgan are good matches, but nothing to really go out of your way to see.

 

I forgot just how awful Donnie B is here.  The Corino-Donnie tandem is just awful.  Between the two of them, I don't think there is a second of commentary silence.  I thought the worst Donnie B call came from the Divine Storm vs York & Matthews match.  There is a top rope manhattan drop and Donnie B says something along the lines of "A knee to the nads!  It doesn't matter what language you speak, that spells out P-I-N-E pain!"  Yes, he misspelled pain on commentary. 



#31 Hobbes

Hobbes
  • Members
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 May 2017 - 10:28 AM

Donnie B is horrible, and I agree about the first three shows being a trilogy. And alsoooo episode four is up:

 

Matt and Trevor return to review ROH’s Road to the Title! The best show so far? The funniest show so far? We revisit one of the more famous single minutes of indie wrestling in fifteen years! We get invaded by the British! Why would you make out next to a dumpster? All is explained on the fourth episode of ThROH The Years!

 

http://www.thecubsfa...d-to-the-title/



#32 TonyPulis'Cap

TonyPulis'Cap
  • Members
  • 163 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 08 May 2017 - 02:51 AM

Really enjoying reminiscing about the early days of ROH - great project.

 

The Round Robin Challenge and Road to the Title were the first two ROH VHS tapes I got back in the day and they got me hooked straight away. Interesting to see how Road to the Title holds up, as I remember that there were a lot of short first round matches and lots of guys to get through. Really interested to hear as well what you make of the British invasion, which was a bit of a prototype of what there has been the last few years. Jody Fleisch and Jonny Storm bring their high flying touring match ala Ospreay and Scurll while you have Doug Williams as the mat technician working a more traditional British style in the mould of Zack Sabre Jnr. Fleisch, Storm and Williams were the original trio that were helping to revive British wrestling around this time through their work in the FWA and Williams in particular gets a really strong run in ROH in the first couple of years. I must've seen Jody and Jonny wrestle dozens and dozens of times, and I think the match on this show is very much a greatest hits package, but around the same time, check out the match they had in CZW as part of Best of the Best as it's absolutely mental. Pure unadultared spotfest but they nail everything and I love watching them go up against each other. Even last year they were having fun matches against each other.     



#33 Hobbes

Hobbes
  • Members
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 May 2017 - 12:19 AM

Thanks! People saying they enjoy the show continues to blow my mind.

 

Me and Matt disagreed a fair bit with each other about Fleisch/Storm on the new episode, but we made sure to mention reports of them doing better elsewhere. We both really liked revisiting Williams (and managed to dig up some interesting super glowing praise from Meltzer in 2002).

 

I am always fascinated with "touring matches" and wonder if in the modern age Storm/Fleisch would've been more successful. I think for a lot of us in the bygone days of the early 2000s, our indie exposure was limited by our budget. If you were like me, most of your indie viewing was ROH, not because of interest, but because of finances. Nowadays the cost barrier is so much lower. What I'm trying to say is, if Fleisch and Storm had five great matches in places and an average one in ROH, a young ROH buyer like me might only get to see the average one. Nowadays, if you get into say, Ricochet/Ospreay, you can follow them all over the place for much cheaper. For the price of one ROH tape, I could get a month of FloSlam and see Ospreay/Ricochet in OTT and Evolve (I think). Or I could get a month of New Japan World, watch their super juniors match, and still have ten bucks left over. Wrestlers don't live or die off of one match in a prominent promotion like they used to I think.

 

 

Really enjoying reminiscing about the early days of ROH - great project.

 

The Round Robin Challenge and Road to the Title were the first two ROH VHS tapes I got back in the day and they got me hooked straight away. Interesting to see how Road to the Title holds up, as I remember that there were a lot of short first round matches and lots of guys to get through. Really interested to hear as well what you make of the British invasion, which was a bit of a prototype of what there has been the last few years. Jody Fleisch and Jonny Storm bring their high flying touring match ala Ospreay and Scurll while you have Doug Williams as the mat technician working a more traditional British style in the mould of Zack Sabre Jnr. Fleisch, Storm and Williams were the original trio that were helping to revive British wrestling around this time through their work in the FWA and Williams in particular gets a really strong run in ROH in the first couple of years. I must've seen Jody and Jonny wrestle dozens and dozens of times, and I think the match on this show is very much a greatest hits package, but around the same time, check out the match they had in CZW as part of Best of the Best as it's absolutely mental. Pure unadultared spotfest but they nail everything and I love watching them go up against each other. Even last year they were having fun matches against each other.     



#34 TonyPulis'Cap

TonyPulis'Cap
  • Members
  • 163 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:09 AM

That's a really interesting point, and I definitely agree that with the raft of streaming services and monthly subscriptions to a whole library of content costing the same as what one VHS tape used to back in the day, you are much more able to track workers across several promotions and get a much more well rounded view of them.

 

I agree, that Jody/Jonny match is not one of their better efforts, and from what I remember pretty short as it was just a first round match and none of those got much time. Their matches are not for everyone as they always tended to be very spot heavy and 'early 2000s indyriffic', but if you watch them have a match now, having to go slower can actually work in their favour. Back in the day they worked at 100 mph and I think if you watch the CZW match or some of those that they had in the FWA they were much better than the ROH encounter.

 

Glad you enjoyed revisiting Doug Williams' work, he's one of my all time favourites and really underrated, He was the glue in many a BritWres Indy match and on many a BritWres Indy card for most of the 2000s. I like his run in the first 3 years of ROH with lots of fun matches, and felt he brought a different style than a lot of the other workers in the promotion at the time.

 

On the whole UK/ROH tie in, I know it's not until 2003 and for some not an official ROH show in the canon, but are you planning on covering the ROH/FWA Frontiers of Honor show? Some pretty interesting matches on there.    



#35 MFoy

MFoy
  • Members
  • 121 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 May 2017 - 06:04 PM

We weren't planning on covering Frontiers of Honor, since it's not completely canon, but if people think it's important then we'll do it if Trevor has it or it's easy to get our hands on it. I've actually never seen it.



#36 Hobbes

Hobbes
  • Members
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 May 2017 - 01:19 AM

That show would be quite down the line so we'll decide when we come to it, but I'm borderline on it. There's a few shows we're either going to leave out or have to discuss if we want to review them. I know Matt and I have already privately agreed that we're not going to review the afternoon Do or Die newcomers cards (Although we will review the original Do or Die, since that was a proper ROH card).There's also a JAPW/ROH co-promoted show early in 2004 called "Collision Course" that we haven't discussed yet, but I doubt we'll cover that either (Although we'll be missing a sixteen minute Samoa Joe/Balls Mahoney match!).

 

Frontiers Of Honor is a tough call, because like Matt says, it's not completely cannon and I think Matt and I both have very weak knowledge of the FWA guys that didn't become US fixtures. On the other hand, there is some interesting historical stuff there, like it being by far the biggest crowd ROH had been involved in up to that point (over 1,100 I believe), and Low Ki dislocating his collarbone.

 

That was a very long way of saying "I'm not sure" and it's obvious I have spent way too much time researching ROH in the last month or two.



#37 ajsmith_7

ajsmith_7
  • Members
  • 49 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 12 May 2017 - 06:20 AM

I'm loving these shows and am loving reliving the glory days of ROH and watching the shows again before I listen to the podcast!
As I'm English I'd like to hear you review the FWA show but that's just me, would also enjoy the collision course japw show, I agree the do or die afternoon shows wouldn't be worth it

#38 MFoy

MFoy
  • Members
  • 121 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 12 May 2017 - 09:20 AM

I've never even heard of this Collision Course show before. Interesting.

#39 Laney

Laney
  • Members
  • 428 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:22 PM

The Frontiers of Honor show isn't essential viewing and the FWA only portion of the show is a little rough to get through as I recall from the last time I watched it.  The two important things coming from this show is that i the ROH title becomes the ROH "World" title because it is defended in the UK, and it is the birth of the "Ole, Ole" kick from Joe.

 

I just got around to listening and rewatching Road to the Title.  I remember the relapse.com segment being discussed on the old ROH board.  It basically comes down to Gabe being a fan of the bands carried on the label.  They were located in the Philly area (looks like they may now be in Lancaster) and one of the ROH fans asked the guy who runs it about this segment.  They know who Gabe is, but had no idea that he plugged Relapse as they never asked him to do it and he never mentioned it after the fact.  Here's some trivia, the song Jerry Lynn is listening to, Sewn Mouth Secrets by Soilent Green, eventually becomes the Carnage Crew's theme song.

 

Road to the Title is also the first ROH show to be released on DVD.  Unfortunately, they did not have the foresight to add chapters.  I remember feeling like Donnie B and fast forwarding through this show back in the day to get back to my spot.  I'm glad that I got rid of the red cover DVD and bought the remastered version of this release.  

 

This is a fun show to go back and watch, and it kind of bothers me that ROH has seemingly rewritten their own history from this time period.  I went to the Manhattan Mayhem show this year (my first ROH show in 7 years) and they had some trivia questions prior to the show in honor of their 15th Anniversary.  According to their trivia, Mark Briscoe wrestled on the first ROH show and the four original members of the Prophecy were Christopher Daniels, Allison Danger, Dan Maff, and BJ Whitmer.  

 

I'm looking forward to Crowning a Champion.  The main event is excellent if my memory serves me correctly, but the rest of the card, not so much.



#40 Hobbes

Hobbes
  • Members
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 May 2017 - 04:57 AM

Thanks for all  the tidbits, those are really interesting. I should've realized the possible Relapse/Gabe connections as he and Lynn seem to have similar taste in music.

 

The Prophecy trivia thing is bizarre. If you want to whitewash history so it only includes names relevant to current ROH, that'd be one thing, but then why include Maff?






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users