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#21 Strummer

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:52 PM

I liked him and Lita together.  Neither wanted to to go through with the angle so given that I thought they played off each other very well.  Lita has admitted it was the most uncomfortable she's ever been in her time in the business.  I didn't think the E & C comedy was that bad in 2000/2001 although listening to their podcast they seem to have gone into "dad humor" territory.  He was probably over pushed but he had some talent and should have had at least a decent spot.  The stuff with Vickie lasted too long though IIRC



#22 stro

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:59 PM

Canadian dad smark humor. The worst. Although even now, Christian comes off as far cooler, far funnier, and has much better timing than Edge. 



#23 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 09:37 PM

Quality Edge Singles Matches With No Gimmicks Off The Top Of My Head

 

Edge vs Brock & Heyman - Rebellion 2002 (basically an Edge/Brock match)

Edge vs Angle vs Benoit vs Eddie - Smackdown 5th December 2002

 

Edge vs Randy Orton - Vengeance 2004

Edge vs Randy Orton - Raw July 2004

Edge vs Benoit vs Hunter - Raw November 2004

 

Edge vs Hunter - Raw February 2005

Edge vs Benoit - Raw April 2005

Edge vs Matt Hardy - Summerslam 2005 (great short match)

 

Edge vs Cena vs Hunter - Backlash 2006

Edge vs Cena vs RVD - Raw July 2006

Edge vs RVD - Vengeance 2006

Edge vs Cena - Summerslam 2006

 

Edge vs Orton vs Cena vs Shawn - Backlash 2007

Edge vs Orton - Raw April 2007

Edge vs Benoit - Smackdown June 2007

 

Edge vs Undertaker - WM24

Edge vs Jeff Hardy - SNME July 2008

Edge vs Matt Hardy - Smackdown December 2008

Edge vs Jeff vs Hunter - Armageddon 2008

 

Edge vs Cena vs Show - WM25

Edge vs Rey - Smackdown 5th June 2009

Edge vs Jeff Hardy - Smackdown 12th June 2009

Edge vs John Morrison - Smackdown 19th June 2009

 

(He was pretty unbearable in 2010)

 

Edge vs Dolph Ziggler - Rumble 2011

Edge vs Alberto - WM27

 

I mean, it's slim pickings for a guy so heavily featured on TV for a decade (its fucking Edge) and his strengths clearly lie in tag teams and gimmick matches, but there ARE straight singles matches there.

 

Comparing him to Jarrett as a star is way off base. No matter if you dislike the guy, and Lord knows I do too, its pretty disingenuous to suggest that he wasn't over with a lot of people and didn't warrant a push.

 

I do agree that it helps his legacy that he had to retire while he was relatively young and on top and never had a chance to hang around FOREVER and lose people's interest like, say, Randy Orton.



#24 stro

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 10:16 PM

Once again my comparison to Jeff Jarrett had nothing to do with his overness to crowds but in his clearly average/competent at best work and promos somehow getting him 6 years straight (minus injuries) of dominating the main event scene on whichever show he was on. For me personally, I have the same reaction watching Edge's main event stuff as I have trying to watch WCW 2000 and having Jeff Jarrett and the Harris Bros in every 3rd segment all show long.



#25 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:06 PM

Well you were the one who said he was "inexplicably" pushed. It's very explicable. He was over. Has nothing to do with how much we like his ring work.

#26 stro

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 11:56 PM

Inexplicably pushed to that level to start with. Once he was pushed to that level, most of his heat on Raw as derived from Lita, and most of his heat on SD was derived from Vickie. I'm not sure there was ever a period in his career where he didn't need someone to play off of to make him look better. It's very obvious the decision that Edge was going to be a top guy was made in 2002 at the latest, and fans totally rejected the idea in 2003-2005 until the Matt/Lita thing happened. Yet, it never stopped them from pushing him hard. That's what is inexplicable to me. That they picked a dude who clearly wasn't as good as the people he was paired with, who was very average in the ring and mic, who wasn't particularly attractive either....someone high up decided he was going to be a main eventer and didn't stop until he became a "legend". 

 

Edge's push in modern WWE would have as hard of a backlash as Roman's, except he's not nearly as good in the ring as Roman has proven to be over the past 2-3 years.



#27 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 12:17 AM

He and Hunter I find very similar, particularly in the sense that most of the time their alleged heat is being produced by someone else. Hunter had Chyna, DX, Steph, Shawn, Evolution. Edge had Christian, Lita, Vickie. He rarely had to go it alone, and when he did ( 2004e, 2010 for example) he was awful as a character and way less over.

Vickie was one of the best heels of the century, and one of the main reasons why is that she gave Edge heat and relevance for so long.

#28 stro

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 12:48 AM

First off,  can we talk about how fucking horrible wrestling fans are that they turned a beloved star's WIDOW into the top heel for like 5 years? Like, wtf. 

 

But back to Edge. The HHH comparison doesn't hold water with me after he went solo as a heel. Yes, Chyna and then DX as a whole buoyed him in 1997-1998. Stephanie and Evolution certainly did not.



#29 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 01:51 AM

Steph has definitely helped him in recent years as the Authority. She cuts better promos and is more over as a heel.

The most heat Hunter gets in his matches now is the moment when Steph gets hurt.

#30 NintendoLogic

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 07:42 AM

In what world is a cage match not a gimmick match?

 

To me at least, there's a distinction between stipulation matches and gimmick matches. Cage matches in general feel like more violent versions of a standard wrestling match. It's not a theory I've rigorously developed, though.



#31 fakeplastictrees

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 12:40 AM

First off,  can we talk about how fucking horrible wrestling fans are that they turned a beloved star's WIDOW into the top heel for like 5 years? Like, wtf. 

 

Who are you talking about?



#32 El-P

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 04:49 AM

Better that than the pity babyface push (cf Rey Jr.). And Eddie was a heel too anyway.



#33 stro

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 08:42 AM

 

First off,  can we talk about how fucking horrible wrestling fans are that they turned a beloved star's WIDOW into the top heel for like 5 years? Like, wtf. 

 

Who are you talking about?

 

I'm talking about Vickie Guerrero and how much fans hated her so much they had to turn her heel



#34 Alucard

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 05:05 PM

From the list above, I love the Edge/Orton matches the most (Vengeance 04 and April 07). I'd also throw a mention to a couple of his matches with Angle in 2002.



#35 topropepodcast

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 11:20 AM

Years later, a much better talent in Wade Barrett had the same injury problems & didn't get the near the level of promotion. Barrett might not have made money for WWE, near did Edge really, but he would have been far more successful on top as a talent because he was way better than Edge.


I feel like this is a step way too far. Barrett on any given night was usually the worst guy in the ring. I don't see any way he was "way better" than Edge and I'm not an Edge fan. Barrett sucked.

#36 EricR

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:01 PM

I'm not a huge Barrett fan, but I don't think I've ever seen him be a notable "worst guy in the ring". Notable meaning "all four of these guys in the match aren't that good, and he's the worst". 



#37 goc

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:52 PM

I wouldn't say Barrett sucked but he got really over rated because people wanted to believe their bullshit narrative about how Cena ruined the next top guy. But you can't say anything about Edge being "fragile" or "injury prone" and spare Barrett the same criticism. I would rather watch a Barrett match than an Edge match though because Edge was fucking garbage.



#38 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:01 PM

Barrett didn't really find his groove as an in ring worker until after his ship had well and truly sailed. There's a lot of quality in the 2012-2015 period. But in 2010 that was irrelevant, he came in as a genuinely good promo and performer and an interesting character, and they DID fuck him up and not give him nearly as many chances as Edge got.



#39 Exposer

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:14 PM

 

Years later, a much better talent in Wade Barrett had the same injury problems & didn't get the near the level of promotion. Barrett might not have made money for WWE, near did Edge really, but he would have been far more successful on top as a talent because he was way better than Edge.


I feel like this is a step way too far. Barrett on any given night was usually the worst guy in the ring. I don't see any way he was "way better" than Edge and I'm not an Edge fan. Barrett sucked.

 

Completely disagree. I thought Barrett was a really good worker.



#40 Exposer

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:16 PM

I wouldn't say Barrett sucked but he got really over rated because people wanted to believe their bullshit narrative about how Cena ruined the next top guy. But you can't say anything about Edge being "fragile" or "injury prone" and spare Barrett the same criticism. I would rather watch a Barrett match than an Edge match though because Edge was fucking garbage.

 

I didn't spare Barrett the same criticism. If it came across that way, it's not what I meant. I meant they were both injury prone, but for two guys who were Barrett was much better.






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