Jump to content


Photo

Rape culture in pro-wrestling


  • Please log in to reply
99 replies to this topic

#81 sek69

sek69

    Winnipeg Arena's gonna be on fire

  • Members
  • 10726 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, PA

Posted 14 February 2018 - 01:48 PM

...and yet "Jerry Lawler is in to underage girls" has been an open secret/running gag for decades in wrestling.  

 

Like I don't think I've ever come across anyone who actually believes he's 100% innocent and your belief that somehow you're exposing a major scandal here are interesting to me. 

 

 

*edited to add*

 

What would be interesting, in light of Lawler's views about racial and sexual relations, would be the rumors that he was involved in getting Jackie involved in the business back in the day when she was Miss Texas. I remember reading a non Apter wrestling mag that wasn't big on keeping kayfabe heavily implying that she was only in wrestling because she was fucking Jerry Lawler. 



#82 Bix

Bix
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 6292 posts

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:11 PM

...and yet "Jerry Lawler is in to underage girls" has been an open secret/running gag for decades in wrestling.  

 

Like I don't think I've ever come across anyone who actually believes he's 100% innocent and your belief that somehow you're exposing a major scandal here are interesting to me. 

 

Who said I think I found a major scandal? He made weird comments about #MeToo on his podcast. That made me think "Hey, I should see what the cops have from his case." I got the file and it had stuff worth writing about. QED.



#83 sek69

sek69

    Winnipeg Arena's gonna be on fire

  • Members
  • 10726 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, PA

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:25 PM

You seem to be under the impression that everyone was thinking Lawler was innocent all these years and by finding documents that show that the guy everyone jokes about fucking teens was in fact, most likely, fucking teens, 

 

His comments about #MeToo were weird because he's a guy who made his WWF career on being a pervert making comments about a movement designed to call out sexual abusers. Like, I'm not sure how Glenn Moore expected that would go when he asked the question, It would be like asking Jeff Sessions about BLM. Nothing good is going to happen from that. 

 

It just didn't seem like something that needed to dig up court documents to prove.



#84 The Man in Blak

The Man in Blak
  • Members
  • 351 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:St. Louis, MO

Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:58 PM

I think it's easier to say that when you've been a long-time wrestling fan, especially if you were watching Raw live in the 90s when Ross would needle Lawler about that on live broadcasts.

In 2018, when Lawler is presented as a WWE Legend and the company itself is presented with an different corporate image, I don't think you can assume the broader audience has that same level of knowledge. I'd also agree with Bix that the general narrative surrounding this specific case is different than what's presented tangibly in the documents, even if it lines up with what most people "in the know" would infer.

#85 Bix

Bix
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 6292 posts

Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:39 PM

You seem to be under the impression that everyone was thinking Lawler was innocent all these years and by finding documents that show that the guy everyone jokes about fucking teens was in fact, most likely, fucking teens.

Do you have any reading comprehension at all? You're literally the only person who somehow got that impression. The beginning of the article is fairly explicit about the degree to which wrestling fans think he's guilty.

His comments about #MeToo were weird because he's a guy who made his WWF career on being a pervert making comments about a movement designed to call out sexual abusers. Like, I'm not sure how Glenn Moore expected that would go when he asked the question, It would be like asking Jeff Sessions about BLM. Nothing good is going to happen from that.

I have no clue what Glenn was thinking. I've seen some people suggest that maybe he knew it would go this way, but he's not some interviewer, he's Lawler's co-host.
 

It just didn't seem like something that needed to dig up court documents to prove.

First of all, I didn't do that. I got the police department file by filing a public document request. All it took was sending an email, as it didn't cost me any money, either.

That said...why? What's the problem here, other than you looking for your latest excuse to be confrontational? If I didn't find anything previously unreported, I wouldn't have written anything (and the same applies to the Vince thing). Instead, I got not just Lawler's insane letter, but also proof that the version of the case that's always repeated, by both fans and journalists, is a work of fiction.

Take the time to read the underlying documents that I posted, which form the bulk of the file, before you keep making uninformed comments about this. Regardless of whether or not anyone already thought Lawler was guilty, he looks way more guilty now.

#86 NintendoLogic

NintendoLogic

    Grim and frostbitten

  • Members
  • 2846 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:38 AM

It was reported at the time that the girls wrote a letter to the judge admitting they made everything up. Is this not true? Does the letter not exist?



#87 Bix

Bix
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 6292 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:47 AM

It was reported at the time that the girls wrote a letter to the judge admitting they made everything up. Is this not true? Does the letter not exist?

Since I can't sleep tonight for whatever reason:

I had somehow both forgotten that this development in the story existed and missed it searching for the relevant Observers. Obviously, I regret that. However...

Dave's feature about the case that week is unclear on if the letter is sourced from a Louisville newspaper article he mentions or someone close to the case. That week's Torch mentions the newspaper article but nothing about the letter, though it gives the date and says it was a cover story. Newspapers.com has four editions of each day's Louisville paper, and none of them have that front page article. So that's weird in and of itself.

So it appears that the letter may have only run in the Observer, and I've messaged Dave to determine its exact origin. Meanwhile, the newspaper's only reference to the girls recanting comes in the form of:

* Lawler's lawyer claiming to have an affidavit from the girls recanting but not producing it.

* The article on Lawler's plea deal saying that his lawyer called that the girls recanted. Not stating it factually or citing anyone else, much less police or prosectors.

The affidavit(s), which, if it(/they) existed, was seemingly not produced to the local paper (or not verified if it was) sounds like it could even be a different document from what Dave quoted in 1994, described as a letter to the judge. That letter is also contradicted by the police report, as it claims that the skeevy guy who Lawler blamed for everything was the outcry witness who approached police. But he wasn't, it was one of the girls' mothers. Again, that's straight from the police report. That guy was just the one who yelled about legal action whole barging into the offices at Louisville Gardens.

Again, I regret somehow missing that Observer, but now I just have way more questions and no answers yet.

#88 El-P

El-P

    NFLTG

  • Members
  • 9178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:59 AM

Your signature Gif can be interpreted in a whole new way now.

 

Lawler : "Well, I didn't force those little sluts... " Bix throws chair : "You fucking liar !"

 

All joking aside, you should keep digging. I find that all very interesting.



#89 Bix

Bix
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 6292 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:22 AM

Also worth pointing out that the police file had several affidavits supporting Lawler. None are from the accusers and one even attempts to dispute that the girls were in Lawler's room even though he had already admitted that to the police in his interview before the indictment.

So, like I said earlier, none of the stuff about the letter/affidavit/whatever is making much sense to me.

#90 Mrzfn

Mrzfn
  • Members
  • 235 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:04 PM

I also find this very interesting, Bix. I didn't have very much knowledge about this before, so if you've a mind to keep digging please do.



#91 sek69

sek69

    Winnipeg Arena's gonna be on fire

  • Members
  • 10726 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Pittsburgh, PA

Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:51 PM

Wasn't it more or less implied that there was no way Lawler was going to be held responsible by anyone in the Memphis legal system? Isn't it possible, or hell even probable, that a judge just says "I got a letter saying the girls recanted" and magically made things go away without the mess of having to air the dirty laundry of the local hero? Odds were slim to none that anyone in 1994 would have pressed the issue, and I'd wager no one really wanted to pull back the curtain to see what other skeletons could be hiding, 

 

As far as my issue with the piece Bix, I guess my main point of contention would be it seems like it's a much better cautionary tale of why women are hesitant to report sexual assaults (especially against someone famous) rather than focusing on how Lawler tried to slut shame. Or maybe both points could be mentioned, I dunno, I'm not a writer. But if we learned anything from #MeToo and #TimesUp, it's that there's still a disturbingly large portion of folks who's kneejerk reaction to a woman coming forward is "she's a lying slut looking to collect sweet rape dollars because she didn't come forward sooner". 



#92 Mad Dog

Mad Dog
  • Members
  • 4961 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:27 PM

...and yet "Jerry Lawler is in to underage girls" has been an open secret/running gag for decades in wrestling.  

 

Like I don't think I've ever come across anyone who actually believes he's 100% innocent and your belief that somehow you're exposing a major scandal here are interesting to me. 

 

 

*edited to add*

 

What would be interesting, in light of Lawler's views about racial and sexual relations, would be the rumors that he was involved in getting Jackie involved in the business back in the day when she was Miss Texas. I remember reading a non Apter wrestling mag that wasn't big on keeping kayfabe heavily implying that she was only in wrestling because she was fucking Jerry Lawler. 

 

I thought Miss Texas was Jeff Jarrett's fuck buddy.



#93 Bix

Bix
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 6292 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:45 PM

Dave got back to me. Said he doesn't remember who he got the letter from other than that it wasn't Lawler's attorney.

So...that doesn't really help. I know some people think I'm taking shots at Dave on Between The Sheets when I bring up it's attribution and sourcing transparency compared to that of Wade Keller and Steve Beverly, but situations like this is why I talk about it. I don't blame him one bit for not remembering after almost a quarter century, but between that and the letter not corresponding with the way the police were actually contacted...I don't really know if it can be taken at anything close to face value. Even if we weren't coming from a position of decades of thinking Lawler probably did it, the letter seems questionable for at least a few reasons.

#94 El-P

El-P

    NFLTG

  • Members
  • 9178 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:53 PM

I thought Miss Texas was Jeff Jarrett's fuck buddy.

 

That's what has been implied on several shoot interviews, yes.

 

As far as Lawler goes, it's kinda crazy the guy mostly got a pass forever, really.



#95 dawho5

dawho5
  • Members
  • 3580 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Dakota

Posted 16 February 2018 - 01:05 AM

Celebrities, local or bigger usually do if the know how to use that totheir advantage.  I'd guess Lawler is more than savvy enough in that area.



#96 UKWildcat

UKWildcat
  • Members
  • 224 posts

Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:39 AM

Just a FYI: just because they (Louisville and Memphis) were in the same “territory” means nothing; they aren’t remotely the same when it comes to legality or anything (they’re like six hours apart, lol).

While many people here in Louisville probably knew the name Jerry Lawler, he’s really not what you’d call any kind of “local celebrity” whatsoever.

#97 Bix

Bix
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 6292 posts

Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:04 AM

OK, so I've solved part of the riddle: Wade appears to have misattributed the 2/10 story to the Louisville Courier-Journal when it was actually in the Memphis Commercial Appeal, as the quotes there match what he ran. Relevant excerpts from the article, which I had to buy from NewsLibrary's paywall:

 

Two 14-year-old girls who told police they had sex with the Memphis-based wrestling celebrity have recanted the story in conversations with other wrestling fans, in a signed affidavit obtained by Lawler's attorneys and in a letter to Jefferson Circuit Judge Earl O'Bannon.

 

Both girls' names appear on a letter received by Judge O'Bannon that recants the allegations, however.
 
``We told the first story to the dectives(sic) about doing sexual things with Jerry Lawler,'' the Jan. 24 letter states. ``That is totally not true. Then (we) told the truth the second time. Why is the case still going on.(sic) All this is doing is putting our familys(sic) through stress & worrys(sic). We just want this to be over with. So we all can go on with our lifes(sic). Please take this in consideration.''

 

 

Still, the letter sticking with the Lawler narrative that John Segevan was who went to the police, which we now know not to be true, is a gigantic red flag on several levels. Plus, the article also does not explain how they got it at all: Is it in the court record? If so, why didn't the Courier-Journal touch it? And why would they send the judge that letter but NOT the sworn affidavit, which would have greater value? Is it possible that the affidavit DOESN'T blame Segevan because that would be provably false?
 
At this point I guess I need to see if the court record still exists, as one would hope that it had the letter. But there are still a ton of questions here, and the letter blaming Segevan calls it into question. The Louisville reporter has little memory of the case and I've messaged the Memphis reporter, fingers crossed, so...we'll see.

 



#98 TravJ1979

TravJ1979
  • Members
  • 1320 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana

Posted 19 February 2018 - 04:53 PM

Have the names of the girls ever been released since they became of age?  If so, they may be a good source of what really happened.



#99 Bix

Bix
  • DVDVR 80s Project
  • 6292 posts

Posted 19 February 2018 - 04:56 PM

Have the names of the girls ever been released since they became of age?  If so, they may be a good source of what really happened.

Nope.

#100 TravJ1979

TravJ1979
  • Members
  • 1320 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana

Posted 20 February 2018 - 06:49 PM

They would be my age now. Damn near 40. His current girlfriend was 4 at the time that happened.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users