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WWE TV: July 10-16


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#41 sek69

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 09:32 AM

I don't know if he's going to pan out to be what the company expects him to be, but he does have a bad ass aura a lot of the roster lacks. So many heels come off as someone playing bad guy, Corbin comes off as a legit bad guy who gives no fucks (probably because his real personality is not too far from that). 



#42 El-P

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 10:24 AM

I dunno. He doesn't look much more bad-ass than Brian Lee as Chainz. Ok for mid-card. When you got Braun, Lesnar & Joe on your roster, I don't see a lack of bad-ass-don't-give-a-fuckery (although I don't care for Lesnar's matches anyore, but that's another thing).



#43 Loss

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:06 AM

They should push Corbin because people seem to buy Corbin. Of course, that's the same reason they should push guys like Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn. I'm all for more stars. I don't think we have to forge some type of ideological war between "smark" favorites and Vince's favorites. I think there's room for everyone.



#44 Strummer

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:09 AM

yes I think it's possible to like the Zayn, Owens, Rollins types and still like Braun and Roman, etc but there seems to be "choose a side" a lot of the times



#45 El-P

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:16 AM

The whole "choose a side" is stupid as hell though. I like Zayn a lot. Don't care much for Owens. I like Braun a lot. Don't care much for Roman.



#46 Mad Dog

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:48 AM

The problem is they can't think outside of the box. Let's say they decided to put the Smackdown World Title on Big E. They would either have him turn on New Day or have New Day turn on him first. Why can't Big E win the belt and stay with the New Day?

What I really want is for them to stop this nonsense with making faces look like impotent assholes at every turn and change the format of the TV. It's been 20 years, you can try new things.

#47 El-P

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 11:55 AM

Nah. Same set than in 2000. Authority figure. GM. Backstage acting with awkward pauses. That's it. That's the rule.



#48 sek69

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:03 PM

For a company that beats "we put smiles on faces" to death as a slogan, they sure do like to bum everyone out by making the good guys looks like geeks. 

 

It's even more baffling when you consider the most money they ever made was when the evil boss and his minions were made to look like fools by the heroic everyman babyface on a regular basis. For as much as they continue to lionize that era (and they should, considering it was their most successful time) they sure don't seem to remember just why it was so great.



#49 Blehschmidt

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 01:53 PM

If Daniel Bryan won the 2015 Royal Rumble, Reigns would be over as top babyface, precluding some other blunder after that. He wasn't getting booed after going solo in 2014.

 

To go back even further, I think if they had called the audible and had Reigns toss Batista to win the 2014 Rumble, he would be exactly where they want him to be today. I was in Pittsburgh that night, and I have been too shows where the crowd has gone home disappointed, but that night the crowd went home fucking angry.

 

When Reigns and Batista were the last two in that match, a swell went across that crowd and Reigns momentarily became Hogan in 85, Austin in 98, and Sammartino in the 60's all rolled into one. Had he tossed Big Dave, the reaction would have been thunderous, and although he still wouldn't have been Daniel Bryan, all would have been well in Pittsburgh that night, and this dark path of The Office vs The Fans booking that I truly believe began that night because they no longer had a choice but to push Daniel Bryan, could have all been avoided.



#50 Mad Dog

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:08 AM

If anyone is interested Bryan Alvarez got an email from a lawyer and read off all of the felonies that Reigns committed after the ambulance match. I believe it was in the range of 8 or 9.

#51 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:27 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with Loss. It's exhausting being a WWE fan when they seem so determined to wage war against their paying customers. Instead of giving fans what they want they almost take gleeful satisfaction in frustrating them, like it's a game and they have to "win", and if you let the crowd become too happy then they "win" and you "lose" (somehow, by making more money?).

 

The way that they have almost all heel champs. The way that they book PPVs where the heels win practically every match and give the crowd no feel good results. The way they get to the PPV and have heels retain their belts by some lame countout nonsense. The babyface can never get a damn win at the PPV! The way they had Hunter and Steph come out every week and berate the crowd and the crowd's favourite wrestlers for being stupid little marks for years up until very recently. The way they push a guy like Roman seemingly to spite people. The way they take an insanely popular dude like Enzo and have him be completely annihilated by a guy like Cass because one is 7ft tall and one isn't. The way they have insanely popular girls like Bayley and Sasha and have no idea what to do with them except beat them over and over and over. And so on.

 

You combine all of that heel-heavy, disappointment-heavy booking with the general drag of three hour Raws and endless television that feels like it all runs together and it's all just...tiresome. There's no joy in watching at the moment. Wrestling should be fun - it should feel like fun - or else why waste our time with it? I need that joy and I'm not getting it from the main roster anymore outside of Fashion Police skits.



#52 TonyPulis'Cap

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:19 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with Loss. It's exhausting being a WWE fan when they seem so determined to wage war against their paying customers. Instead of giving fans what they want they almost take gleeful satisfaction in frustrating them, like it's a game and they have to "win", and if you let the crowd become too happy then they "win" and you "lose" (somehow, by making more money?).

 

The way that they have almost all heel champs. The way that they book PPVs where the heels win practically every match and give the crowd no feel good results. The way they get to the PPV and have heels retain their belts by some lame countout nonsense. The babyface can never get a damn win at the PPV! The way they had Hunter and Steph come out every week and berate the crowd and the crowd's favourite wrestlers for being stupid little marks for years up until very recently. The way they push a guy like Roman seemingly to spite people. The way they take an insanely popular dude like Enzo and have him be completely annihilated by a guy like Cass because one is 7ft tall and one isn't. The way they have insanely popular girls like Bayley and Sasha and have no idea what to do with them except beat them over and over and over. And so on.

 

You combine all of that heel-heavy, disappointment-heavy booking with the general drag of three hour Raws and endless television that feels like it all runs together and it's all just...tiresome. There's no joy in watching at the moment. Wrestling should be fun - it should feel like fun - or else why waste our time with it? I need that joy and I'm not getting it from the main roster anymore outside of Fashion Police skits.

 

Agree with a lot of this, although, I feel like wrestling bookers/companies for decades have enjoyed frustrating the paying customer and continue to do so - not just WWE. In terms of a chase and building heat, cheap wins/DQs/run ins/heel tactics can all be helpful points on a bigger journey, the key is knowing when to cash in and let the face go over or win the big one at the right time. Too many times, you get a cheap ending, justified as building heat, when the time is right for a payoff. I think I remember Will talking about it on either one of the reaction shows or Dangerous Alliance podcasts, but the problem a lot of the time with wrestling is that there aren't enough feel good moments when you really think about it. Obviously it would be boring - and it would turn the crowd off - if babyfaces always won against the odds, but the art of sending home crowds happy and giving them something...anything....to cheer about or get behind often just isn't there. 

 

Even when someone does get that big moment, or there is something that genuinely makes people happy, it's so quickly moved on from or taken away from them. I know that's a bit the nature of the beast with wrestling not being in seasons or having down time, but fans being able to revel in the success of a hero or feel good moment might help people to feel more invested and make dodgy/controversial finishes have more impact.



#53 MoS

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:29 AM

I look at how Goldberg was booked in the first month or so of his return and I think if Reigns is booked like that (obviously not identically but in the same vein) he wouldn't have the mixed reaction issue, at least not to the same extent. Goldberg in his opening promo came across as a bigger ass-kicking cool badass babyface than Reigns and all his "I am THE guy" promos.

So I guess the company does know how to book babyfaces and make them look badass instead of geeks or losers who cannot hang with the evil heels, but..they choose not to do that with Reigns and co.? I dunno, it is very weird. I really like Goldberg, but Reigns is a significantly better worker than he is, and yet he has never looked as good as Goldberg was booked to look, even without the surprise squashes.

#54 Loss

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:31 AM

It is a balancing act, and of course heels have to build heat. But even heels dominating can be fun and exciting. When fans can tell their moment is coming, they are usually willing to be patient and go along for the ride. When it's questionable or obvious that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, that's a different story.



#55 Mad Dog

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:51 AM

I think that's the biggest issue with the heel domination right now. A lot of its just filler that isn't leading anywhere.

#56 iamthedoctor

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 10:55 AM

James Ellsworth being suspended for 30 days seems a bit extreme. They could of used him as heat but instead he's on twitter getting fan support.



#57 Mad Dog

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 02:08 PM

Jeremy Borash/Joseph Park vs. Josh Matthews/Scott Steiner had a more satisfying face victory than almost anything the WWE has produced in months. 



#58 goc

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:48 PM

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#59 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:06 PM

The funny thing is that the biggest success this company has is when they get behind a big babyface champ and have a face winning every night (Bruno, Hogan, Austin, Cena), and then they seemingly get amnesia about it and decide to beat all their faces into the ground thinking that will do anything.



#60 Loss

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:29 PM

WWE has been perpetually building to a future that never arrives for many years now.






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