MoS Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Both Rock and the NAO relied on using catchphrases a ton, but the Rock was infinitely more charismatic so got exponentially more over and drew a lot more money, so I can see them being jealous of Rock. In his prime, Rock was one of those people whose interview could be billed as the main event of the card and it would sell out the arena. Pity he was so awful in his comeback run, although I guess his material was never going to age well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 It's funny because when it was happening, I actually couldn't stand The Rock. I only grew appreciation for his work during the GWE poll in 2006. Back then, I thought his work was the shits (he was still pretty green and really didn't become interesting to watch until about 2000 I'd say) and I couldn't stand the catchphrases laden promos. To me, pro-wrestling done that way wasn't interesting. Sadly, it set a precedent. I wanted my promos to actually mean something and deal with issues. So the entire deal of "it doesn't matter what your name is / turned this sumbitch sideways / lay the smack down / if you smeeeeeeell" was just a turn-off after the first few times when it was still funny and different.Billy Gunn is a complete oddity to me. He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire with his work in the NAO and he wasn't even a good promo. Like just saying "Suck It !" while being part of the hottest act at the time was enough (and really, retrospectively, it was pretty awful and embarrassing). When he went in TNA, while Armstrong could find new ways to twist his deal to make it work around new stable names and could actually cut very good promos when issues were given (like the angle with his father vs Konnan), it was brutal to watch Kip James not being able to say his stupid "suck it !" stuff and try awful, dry formulas that went over like a fart in a church like "I'm Kip James bitches !" or "Get It, Got It, Good !" or something to that effect (can't even remember it). It raises the question about all these sing-along/catchphrases guys whose actual *work* don't matter one bit in getting them (or are *they* really ?) over. You can argue it existed before, like Hacksaw getting huge reactions just because of the shouting and USA chant, but not really in forms of sing-along catchphrases, which are one of the worst heritage of the Attitude era. Enzo & Cass directly come from there (hell, even Enzo alluded to it during his promo before the PPV hard job). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 The Road Dogg promo right after Konnan and LAX attacked Bullet was probably the best promo he ever gave. No catchphrases and the emotion when he says "damn it that was my dad" was good shit. The matches were obviously going to suck but he sold me on wanting to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 I agree Rock's promos were often empty; it was his charisma that made them entertaining or over. Without his charisma they would have stopped meaning anything in 6 months, and indeed when he came back, they mostly did not mean anything. The atmosphere and the setting of WWE now is different and his promos sounded as hollow as they could. I firmly believe he was comfortably outpromo'd by Cena and Punk because that kind of promo style was always going to have a limited shelf life; it is just that Rock's charisma ensured his shelf life was longer. I guess many wrestlers took the wrong lesson from his success, and thought just having tons of catchphrases and many sing-a-long promos would get you over. I remember Meltzer once saying that it is often foolish to look at what Rock did and what worked for him as precedent or justification for your booking, because he was the exception to the rule. If you had a roster full of Rocks, of course you could get away with doing anything. But you don't, and you most likely never will. I think Dave was bang-on with that. Coming back to Enzo and Cas, I thought Enzo did a tremendous job in their squash match playing a wrestler who was game and wanted to fight and prove his "toughness" but was ultimately completely outmatched. His facial expressions when he was taking a beating and when he was trying to make a comeback, only to fail, were excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted August 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2017 Well, it's pretty much confirmed now that Meltzer got at least half this story right. We may never know if Big Cass is a vocal Trump supporter, but the reports of Enzo having major heat backstage and getting booted off a tour bus have been confirmed by no less than JBL and Corey Graves on Bring it to the Table. They also confirmed that Enzo has some major heat on him in general. Sports Illustrated (which is all of the sudden breaking and reporting some stories with a degree of accuracy) reports that the heat on Enzo is apparently due to his being generally unlikable backstage. Corey Graves claimed that Enzo's backstage personality isn't all that different than his on-screen persona, and if that's the case, he must be as annoying as shit. Other claims are that he is partying like a madman. I don't know if anybody here has heard the stories about him going to a strip club in Buffalo all drunk and acting like a jerk to the dancers, one of whom posted about it on Facebook and the stories took off from there. Apparently that story got him some heat as well. Other claims are that he is concentrating too much on projects outside WWE, including music(?!) The main thing that has him heat right now is that he apparently brought some of his party friends backstage and these people were generally unwelcome and taking pictures to boot, which is a major no-no. I'm just a fan and even I can figure out that bringing strangers backstage and letting them take pictures is a really dumb idea. Like a lot of people speculated, apparently parts of Cass's promos during their split were supposed shoots, about how nobody liked Enzo and how Cass was getting sick of defending him and sticking up for him. My question was (and still is) that if he has so much heat backstage and is on the verge of being released, why WWE would let Enzo cut so many promos during the breakup with Cass (which have only helped him) and why they have featured him so heavily on Raw recently. Wasn't he in the closing segment last week? That doesn't seem like a guy who has heat and is getting buried. If they are going to release him for being such a doofus, they should probably just get on with it, unless they are planning on writing him out with a major injury angle or something, at the hands of Cass. The other possibility is that WWE is experimenting with working the fans and so-called IWC by perpetuating these stories on platforms like Bring it to the Table, when they aren't really true. Maybe he doesn't have heat and this is all a work, bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 More on the stripper story mentioned above: Crazy series of tweets from a stripper who claimed Enzo was full of himself and high on weed. I have no idea if any of this is true, but holy shit... https://twitter.com/KikiBeeTard/status/891283672606924801 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 Enzo's been getting squashed nearly every week with little to no offense, it certainly appears they've made their minds up about him and are just using him to get over Cass before cutting him. I wonder if the day does come and the axe falls, will he stick around in wrestling or go with his other interests! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 More on the stripper story mentioned above: Crazy series of tweets from a stripper who claimed Enzo was full of himself and high on weed. I have no idea if any of this is true, but holy shit... https://twitter.com/KikiBeeTard/status/891283672606924801 Funny stuff. 10$Enzo. (well he does seem like a complete asshole on top on having zilch talent, which often go hand in hand actually) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted August 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 I saw the extended promo for Simon Gotch's just released RF Video Shoot Interview, and there are clips of him just burying the hell out of Enzo, and giving examples of why he is so hated. One of the most interesting examples is Enzo claiming to be a protege of Dusty Rhodes, while knowing next to nothing about Dusty's career. "Simon talks all about his feelings on Enzo and why he feels he is not a good worker and gives tons of stories to back up his claims. It’s safe to say after hearing this that Enzo and Simon will never be exchanging holiday cards any time soon, as Simon does not like him particularly very much. Trust me he pulls no punches during this part of the interview." I'd rather die a painful death than put one dollar in Rob Feinstein's pocket, so I shall not see the interview, but it looks quite interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 As some old-time 'rassler might say, "Enzo Amore drew more money than Simon Gotch, so that makes Enzo a better worker...brother." And I agree. I'd rather watch Enzo any day of the week than Gotch. Reason being: I actually care about what Enzo's doing. Nothing Gotch does matters to me because the character never mattered to me. The Vaudevillians had a cool entrance though! Sure, you can say the same about Enzo's pre-match rap, but at least I cared about Enzo after that was all said and done. Where is this extended Gotch promo anyway? I don't want to put a cent in RF's pocket either, but no harm in watching a free preview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Honestly, other than the entrance, there's nothing Enzo brings to the table. I'd rather watch 100 Gotch matches than one Enzo match. However Enzo sells merch to kids and Gotch never will in a million years (in WWE anyway) so if I'm running the company it's Enzo all day. Having said that, it's not hard to see if his real personality is even a tenth of what's on TV it's no wonder he's rubbing everyone the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted August 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Honestly, other than the entrance, there's nothing Enzo brings to the table. I'd rather watch 100 Gotch matches than one Enzo match. However Enzo sells merch to kids and Gotch never will in a million years (in WWE anyway) so if I'm running the company it's Enzo all day. Having said that, it's not hard to see if his real personality is even a tenth of what's on TV it's no wonder he's rubbing everyone the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Starts at 6:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 I watched the Gotch shoot preview video last night. What a fucking mess! 1. Choppy as hell, and cuts off in the middle of a sentence (I get that they want you to buy the video to hear the whole story, but still). 2. Has that hideous RF Video background that would be like nails on a chalkboard to watch for two hours. On a positive note, Gotch seems like a cool guy who would be fun to listen to - something that didn't come across at all on NXT/WWE TV - and he has one of the better Dusty Rhodes impressions I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 I just love that Bray Wyatt was trying to be the voice of reason between Gotch and Hunico. I hope he was using his gimmick voice when he did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 I'm amazed every time I see RF is still doing the same godawful interviews he has been doing for more than 15 years now. Who pays for that shit ? ("he broke his own leg trying to counter a wristlock" Holy shit.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Everyone: Save yourself the trouble of watching this horrid preview video and giving RF hits - just read the transcript instead: http://wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2017/0809/629943/simon-gotch-on-enzo-amore-being-a-detriment-to-wrestlers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Even my wife has sort of soured on him and she enjoyed his shtick. That is how I know things may be hitting a wall for him. She even said the other day he looked hung over or drunk, not as funny. I don't know. The stuff I read has sort of turned me off to him a bit, but I try not to put too much stock into things I don't know for sure. If they split him from Cass and don't latch him to someone else it will feel like a death sentence to that character to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Big Show certainly didn't look thrilled to be partnered with Enzothis week. And feuding with the Good Brothers? Talk about dumping all your unwanted eggs in one unwanted basket. Of the whole bunch, I feel worst for Show. He looked to be in tremendous shape for the potential of facing Shaq and when that fell through, the company barely did anything with him aside from that pretty good RAW match against Strowman. If they move him to SD, I'm not sure there'd be chemistry, but I wouldn't hate seeing motivated Show vs. Styles (could it be worse than any of the Styles/Owens snorefests?) or even Show vs. Nakamura (the clash of styles would be either a total mess or kind of entertaining). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 I like how excited Gotch seemed that Enzo was selling so well for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 That probably didn't happen much for guys his size on the main roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Is there a huge guy in NXT who would benefit from being his new partner and could put over Cass, then Enzo could kinda go back to what he was doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I wonder, how do wrestlers justify getting pissed at Enzo for bringing his boys backstage and taking photos but doing shoot interviews airing their dirty laundry is fine? If Enzo charged his friends $20 per photo would that make it okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 WWE could kill shoot interviews with the snap of their fingers if they really wanted to by having wrestlers sign NDAs. I'm sure they have reasons for not doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I have really like Enzo's promos recently. They are earnest and they have a pizzazz to the, It sounds authentic and are entertaining. People are surprised that a guy that looks like Enzo actually acts like a guy who looks like Enzo. That's ridiculous. Fuck all these strait-laced, sterile dudes. Enzo's got personality and he should do his thing. I think Enzo & Big Show have been great. Enzo is a great face in peril and does a great glassy eye sell. Enzo feels like pro wrestling and does pro wrestling. We need more pro wrestlers and Enzo is one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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