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WWE TV Sept 4-10


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#81 FMKK

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:51 AM

As with anything, it's the follow-up that means as much as the moment itself. If they do a bullshit finish, have Braun dominate the inevitable Survivor Series tag match, put on a good showing at the Rumble then work Cena in a big match at Mania then he'll be fine. It's clear they see him as a top guy more so that they ever did with Rusev, Owens or any of the others who've had stop-start pushes and ended up being parked in the midcard. That's my impression anyway. He's been the best protected new guy in years so it would be odd if that suddenly came to a halt with the Lesnar match.

#82 Yo-Yo's Roomie

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:52 AM

 

Neither Austin, Michaels, nor Cena were ready to be champ when they had their first ppv title shots. Them not winning was the correct decision. I'm not sure whether Braun should win it on Sunday or not, but bringing up these other examples is a weak argument.

The real weak argument is saying that Braun will never be the same if he doesn't win the title at No Mercy. They haven't built this up as some huge coronation moment like Luger vs. Yoko or something like that, it's just a big Clash of Titans match that happens to have a title on the line and is almost guaranteed to not have a clean finish.

 

 

That's not an argument, that's an opinion. Pretending there's no precedence for WWE missing the opportunity to make guys big stars by having them lose key matches is just willful ignorance. 



#83 Yo-Yo's Roomie

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:56 AM

Really it depends on where you think his ceiling is. Is he Umaga? Is he Brock? More than? Less than? Umaga had a decent spot after losing his title programme with Cena, and could be cycled back in and out, but was never truly a main guy again. Brock was made by beating Rocky first time out, and you couldn't imagine him being anything other than a top guy again. Braun probably has more potential than even that. I don't think he needs to win the title here, but he probably shouldn't lose the match either.



#84 Matt D

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:01 AM

I think the fact that he's been so well protected hurts the argument to a degree. That's not crazy talk. It's history. Everyone post-Lesnar gets depushed at some point to remind them that the WWE is bigger than them, to remind the WWE UNIVERSE that the WWE is bigger than them, to see how they handle it, to see if they're resilient enough to get back over, etc. This is a pattern that's happened repeatedly over the last ten years with almost everyone who's been brought up. Any sort of interpersonal issue only exacerbates it (again, see Rusev and the social media stuff WWE hated out of Lana). At some point, history tells us that Braun will get depushed at least for a while. People who ignore the patterns on this stuff are willfully ignorant. There's always a chance that they'll buck the trend here, but it's a much smaller chance than them doing what they do every single time.



#85 goc

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:10 AM

Comparing a potential Braun heel reign to Triple H's reign of terror just takes the cake.


There aren't a whole lot of long heel runs in WWE history to be used for comparison but the ones we have to look at weren't during good business periods, which goes along to my point that it seems fairly silly to speculate that Braun winning the title would lead to some boom in business.



#86 Yo-Yo's Roomie

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:19 AM

I don't know that anything is going to lead to a boom in business anymore. Not with how they operate from the top down. But it helps to have a guy who the crowd are really into and feels like a legit star at the top of the cards.

 

One example that could be pointed to, and it's fresh in my mind because I've been rewatching it, is Mark Henry's Hall of Pain run on SD. He built up a tonne of momentum, and when it came time for him to challenge for the belt, he won definitively. And I believe SD ratings improved with him on top too.



#87 El-P

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:04 PM

There aren't a whole lot of long heel runs in WWE history to be used for comparison 

 

Braun is a babyface. Well, you know.



#88 Seabs

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 03:20 PM

The same arguments were flying around when he lost his first match to Reigns and after that he even had a bad follow up jobbing in the afterthoughts Battle Royal. They heated him up again and he got hot again. It's never one single event that decide's a wrestlers fate, it's a series of them up. He can lose looking like a monster and follow up by doing what he's been doing again. It's not like he's going to lose in a quick one sided Suplex City match. He's probably getting more in on Brock than anyone has since the Roman Mania match which is a big rub in itself. Or they do a non finish and build to a rematch at Survivor Series and that happens then. The only reason he'll be ruined is if the follow up does him no good, not the outcome of the match.

#89 ZThomas

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:32 PM

Even if he loses clean to Brock he'll still have more steam than anyone else and have as mush credibility than anyone not named Roman or Cena, if Vince wasn't in the mode of blowing his load on dream matches on Secondary PPVs and the TVs he would be featured a lot Better in the long term, its not like he's going to be going for fighting for the main title then going for the secondary like AJ and Dean Ambrose which shows weekness in booking. Unless He's programmed with Balor or Miz for weeks he is OK.



#90 Jmare007

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:55 PM

 

Steve Austin didn't win his first one on one PPV singles match for the WWF Title

 

Austin wasn't pushed up then down and is also may be the most charismatic wrestlers of all time.

 

 

 

 

 

WWE doesn't get many chances to make stars who don't have baggage dragging them down. Stroman looked like a star in the feud vs Roman, and at Summer Slam. I say pull the trigger and see what happens.


He's feuded with the brand's top star for months, got out over huge in the Summerslam main event and is working Lesnar for the title at the next PPV. The trigger has already been pulled.

 

He loses to Brock at No Mercy and he will never be the man in the company again. You can't tease someone to the top, have them fail, then expect to get that back again in the future.

 

 

This is sarcasm, right?

 

No.

 

Look at anybody they brought in pushed to the top, given some huge matches, lost them, moved down the card, then tried to make a star. It doesn't work.

 

 

Mark Henry.
 

And Braun isn't gonna be booked like a joke for years before getting a huge push again so he doesn't even have to worry about that.

 

 

As with anything, it's the follow-up that means as much as the moment itself. If they do a bullshit finish, have Braun dominate the inevitable Survivor Series tag match, put on a good showing at the Rumble then work Cena in a big match at Mania then he'll be fine. It's clear they see him as a top guy more so that they ever did with Rusev, Owens or any of the others who've had stop-start pushes and ended up being parked in the midcard. That's my impression anyway. He's been the best protected new guy in years so it would be odd if that suddenly came to a halt with the Lesnar match.

 

This



#91 Jmare007

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:03 PM

I think the fact that he's been so well protected hurts the argument to a degree. That's not crazy talk. It's history. Everyone post-Lesnar gets depushed at some point to remind them that the WWE is bigger than them, to remind the WWE UNIVERSE that the WWE is bigger than them, to see how they handle it, to see if they're resilient enough to get back over, etc. This is a pattern that's happened repeatedly over the last ten years with almost everyone who's been brought up. Any sort of interpersonal issue only exacerbates it (again, see Rusev and the social media stuff WWE hated out of Lana). At some point, history tells us that Braun will get depushed at least for a while. People who ignore the patterns on this stuff are willfully ignorant. There's always a chance that they'll buck the trend here, but it's a much smaller chance than them doing what they do every single time.

 

I agree, but to me that's a completely different discussion than him HAVING to win the title against Brock because that's his only chance to ever be "the man".



#92 Matt D

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:16 PM

Yeah, look, honestly? Even if he wins against Brock, they'll fuck it up later anyway. 



#93 Loss

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:42 AM

Braun is unique among those guys in that his upper body has an upper body.






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