No Mercy 2017

[Fando]

WWE Goodfellas with Braun as Joe Pesci and Karen Jarret as Billy Bats.

[Mad Dog]

I actually think Braun could have been viable as a top guy for a year if you had just gone the Goldberg route. It would have had a shelf life but who cares if he draws you money for a year? Now you just lost that.

[The Chief]

Just watched a pretty decent bald guy with a ponytail managing a great bumper against a legit badass match. Jerry Flynn vs Mortis on Nitro was better than decent.

[SmartMark15]

Just gonna chime in to say that I fall in the category of people who generally enjoyed both the big matches. I thought Cena-Reigns was good and somewhere in the 4 star range. I happen to enjoy Cena-formula matches but it's obvious that this one is on the lower end of those. There was a thread a while back here that talked about the death of the babyface shine in Modern WWE and this was definitely an example of that. Going straight into Reigns' "heel heat" segment really drained a lot of the energy but they picked things back up in the second half I felt.

 

Lesnar-Strowman was disappointing but it wasn't awful. I wasn't too bothered by the finish because they set up that it was a story going early in the match. I'd like to think Strowman's aura hasn't been too damaged but we'll just have to wait an see.

[Strummer]

@chillhartman of pro wrestling sheet is saying the Shield (all 3 of them) are reuniting at the TLC ppv next month. He's pretty much a lock down source of news so it looks legit

[Jmare007]

@chillhartman of pro wrestling sheet is saying the Shield (all 3 of them) are reuniting at the TLC ppv next month. He's pretty much a lock down source of news so it looks legit

 

That sounds fine by me, always thought there was more money on them rejoining than facing each other. But the reunion would be wasted if they don't have a good feud and it doesn't seem like anyone can fill that role.

[Dylan Waco]

Brock looked like complete dogshit. He's either totally done, got hurt, or sandbagged Braun. Whatever the case may be it went south quick on the kimura and it was pretty clearly all on Brock. At one point he was visibly lost and I worried about his health as he laid on the mat with Braun desperately trying to feed to Brock for a triangle or a kimura. Brock legit looked like someone with dementia who had just fallen and broken their hip. He was totally confused, lost, and gassed at that point and he never came back. He's really been a shit show for the bulk of this return, but he's the only protected guy so he has star power. They could have made Braun tonight and didn't which I can accept even though it's garbage, but to put in that level of performance when the company gives you every advantage on Earth is just trash.

 

On the other hand I loved the undercard, and thought Reigns and Cena was excellent as well as the tag title match.

[iamthedoctor]

I'm guessing Brock disappears until the Rumble.

 

No idea what they do with Braun. They kind of just destroyed him.

 

Alot of fans on other sites are complaining one F5 and your done same what happenned to Joe.

 

Id have hated a multiple kickout of finishers.

 

I wonder if they'll go with Braun wins in the rematch or Brock is keeping the belt till Mania.

[Fando]

Protecting the F5 so Roman can kick out of it later, chico.

[Beast]

Off the top of my head, HHH, Taker, Cena, and Reigns among others have all kicked out of the F5 since Brock's 2012 return.

 

Multiple finisher kickouts are not my thing, but since WWE has established that great wrestlers kick out at least once, Joe and Braun both losing to one F5 makes them look weak.

 

Braun recovered quick from losing to Reigns at Fastlane this year, but this loss (with no excuse for Braun to cling to) might be harder to recover from. Or maybe wins and losses don't mean anything anymore and he'll be in the main events of the next five network specials.

[Gutenberger]

I thought this was a good to great show. Until Reigns vs. Cena, which was just meh. And that sendoff moment after such a mediocre match on a B show just made me wonder what the hell's going on, norhing more.

i refuse to talk about Enzo at this point. Liked him with Cass, have grown to despise him.

Brock vs. Braun was horrible. Slow, plodding, no suspense whatsoever, had me yawning throughout. And after that one F5 finish I legit got so angry at this company that I screamed at my TV to fuck off. Yeah, nothing more to say about that.

But, as I said, thefirst good half was really enjoyable, with the Tag match the clear MOTN by far.

[Matt D]

On the other hand I loved the undercard, and thought Reigns and Cena was excellent as well as the tag title match.

 

You seem to be the outlier on Reigns/Cena. I won't be able to see it for a few days at least and really, given my time constraints right now, wasn't going to watch it at all given the feedback. Care to go into more detail?

[SmartMark15]

 

On the other hand I loved the undercard, and thought Reigns and Cena was excellent as well as the tag title match.

 

You seem to be the outlier on Reigns/Cena. I won't be able to see it for a few days at least and really, given my time constraints right now, wasn't going to watch it at all given the feedback. Care to go into more detail?

 

 

As someone who also enjoyed Reigns/Cena, I gotta tell you that I'm generally fan of the WWE "Big Match John" formula. As such, I really enjoyed the AJ Styles match at the start of the year. If you didn't enjoy that, this will probably not be for you. It's on the lower end of his big matches but I thought what was there worked really well. I enjoyed how it progressed and the spots they were able to get in and I thought it paced itself quite well. I seem to be in the minority so there you go.

[sek69]

Multiple endorsements of Roman by other top guys being met with loud booing just makes WWE look increasingly sad and desperate. Vince vs his own audience is the one feud Im really tired of at this point.

[Matt D]

 

 

On the other hand I loved the undercard, and thought Reigns and Cena was excellent as well as the tag title match.

 

You seem to be the outlier on Reigns/Cena. I won't be able to see it for a few days at least and really, given my time constraints right now, wasn't going to watch it at all given the feedback. Care to go into more detail?

 

 

As someone who also enjoyed Reigns/Cena, I gotta tell you that I'm generally fan of the WWE "Big Match John" formula. As such, I really enjoyed the AJ Styles match at the start of the year. If you didn't enjoy that, this will probably not be for you. It's on the lower end of his big matches but I thought what was there worked really well. I enjoyed how it progressed and the spots they were able to get in and I thought it paced itself quite well. I seem to be in the minority so there you go.

 

"Big Match John" feels like a different creature after the Owens feud (after the Bryan match?).

[Mad Dog]

Multiple endorsements of Roman by other top guys being met with loud booing just makes WWE look increasingly sad and desperate. Vince vs his own audience is the one feud Im really tired of at this point.

 

It really is beyond tired at this point. My wife isn't even a regular watcher but even she's caught on to how desperate they are with Reigns.

[JKWebb]

I wonder if any opinions would be different if the Brock/Braun match would have happened before the Cena/Reigns match? I think having Reigns kick out of SO MANY finishers would hurt any match that followed it. I think it amplified the feelings of folks behind Braun when he was put down with "just one?" F5. I do think that it would still have upset some based on what I'm reading, but I really think Cena and Roman should have gone last. I personally would have preferred it if they had found more creative ways to build the closing moments in their (cena/roman) match. Ultimately, and maybe I'm wrong, but ultimately I think all those finishers are really hurting the storytelling in matches and the flow of cards.

[Mad Dog]

I doubt it would have changed much. They jobbed Braun in such a way that they shattered his aura. They killed his finisher in the process as well. Really, that match should have just been the first two minutes. Lesnar suplexes him, Braun gets up, powerslams him, pinfall the end.

[Boss Rock]

Main event really killed what was for the most part a really good show.

[Eduardo]

I really dug Cena vs Reigns.

Worked as Cena, the 40 year old legend and WWE's top guy of this century, running out of gas at this stage of his career. Majority of the match was controlled and dominated by Reigns, with Cena trying to be cute at the very beginning to try to hide the fact that his best years are clearly behind him. Like an aged prize fighter near the end of his run, all Cena could do was try to throw bombs out there, hoping one would put Reigns down for the count. That worked at the Royal Rumble earlier this year against the smaller AJ Styles, but this time he was fighting a bigger and stronger man, the man, and the sequence he used at the Rumble didn't work this time around. As soon as Reigns hit the superman punch and spear, Cena was done. Really liked how clear cut that finish was. Layout was different from what I was expecting, and Cena may have been too silly at the beginning with his facial expressions, but thought this was excellent.

[Al]

My question. If Strowman wins the title from Brock in two minutes, how do you go about selling realistic challengers for him?

[Boss Rock]

I think you could do another Reigns match considering how closely contested their last few has been. Joe has also been booked like a killer. You could also do a David and Goliath match with Finn and have him use the Demon.

[Mad Dog]

My question. If Strowman wins the title from Brock in two minutes, how do you go about selling realistic challengers for him?

 

I mean Goldberg beat Lesnar in a really short match and it didn't effect anything. I mean Lesnar is probably disappearing for awhile so you would at least have the belt on Raw.

 

You could do Braun/Joe right out of the gate and that would probably have been fine.

[The Chief]

My question. If Strowman wins the title from Brock in two minutes, how do you go about selling realistic challengers for him?

 

I think they'd do fine. The Sami Zayn feud is a good example of Braun giving to his opponents while still keeping his aura. You can book underdogs against him until the end of time and run those matches Boss Rock mentioned.

 

I don't think we would have another Brock situation on our hands where he can't realistically feud with anyone due to his positioning. Braun knows how to give.

[Jmare007]

 

 

 

On the other hand I loved the undercard, and thought Reigns and Cena was excellent as well as the tag title match.

 

You seem to be the outlier on Reigns/Cena. I won't be able to see it for a few days at least and really, given my time constraints right now, wasn't going to watch it at all given the feedback. Care to go into more detail?

 

 

As someone who also enjoyed Reigns/Cena, I gotta tell you that I'm generally fan of the WWE "Big Match John" formula. As such, I really enjoyed the AJ Styles match at the start of the year. If you didn't enjoy that, this will probably not be for you. It's on the lower end of his big matches but I thought what was there worked really well. I enjoyed how it progressed and the spots they were able to get in and I thought it paced itself quite well. I seem to be in the minority so there you go.

 

"Big Match John" feels like a different creature after the Owens feud (after the Bryan match?).

 

 

The Bryan match seems like an outlier, Cena was already going into finisher kickout fest after the Rock and Punk feuds. The match with Bryan was his last big matchup that didn't have a bunch of moves and nearfalls.

 

In hindsight, what D-Bry did with Cena and HHH looks even more impressive considering what both of them did after facing him.