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Best of Rey Jr.


Tim Cooke

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Anarchistxx wrote:

 

"Very good match, no doubt, but when you've seen Havoc it's rather disappointing. They try to work a different style, but aren't so good at it, at least with each other."

 

I have seen a broad range of people make the first statement and there is some truth to that. You don't see the amazingly fast exchanges in the Smackdown match as you do in the Havoc match. You also don't see the two big highspots (which are easy top 5 highspots of the 1990's) in the flipping DDT and the Liger style flip into the rana. In 1997, these spots were out of this world (Rey had previously done the Liger flip into a rana on Eddy and Psicosis in AAA in 1995 and possibly on Juventud, not sure on the last one) and the flipping DDT spot may never be hit again. In 2007, these are still mind blowing highspots that really on Mascarita Sagrada and Mini Abismo Negro can attempt to pull off without botching.

 

But in 2005, as Meltzer has pointed out numerous times, Eddy's back was 40 years older than he was. Catching Rey for all of his crazy moves isn't realistic (see their 3/28/04 Smackdown match where Rey attempts the flipping DDT and he is in place for it but Eddy just couldn't complete it) and Rey is working off of numerous surgeries on his knees and is a much more limited flier.

 

So they do work a different style. Very much a hybrid of their own preferences for wrestling (Rey's flying, Eddy's love for being a heel) and mesh it with the WWE philosophy of telling a simple story that the fans can understand without any history.

 

Replaced in the 6/23/05 match are extraordinary selling, some of the best I have ever seen in a WWE ring. This is not to say the selling sucked in the Havoc match because it was perfectly fine and fit the match. But they replace the highspots of their younger days with selling and storytelling.

 

I'm rambling and haven't really made a point but what about the match didn't work for you?

 

"I still maintain Rey's peak was 2002."

 

Having not seen much of the 2002 matches since they happened, I can't be positive that after a re-watch I would hold the same opinion, but Rey's 2004-2006 can easily be argued as a peak for work as an all around performer. What he did in 1995-1996 was more revolutionary, but he is a top 5 guy in the world for almost every day of 2004-2006.

 

Tim

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But in 2005, as Meltzer has pointed out numerous times, Eddy's back was 40 years older than he was. Catching Rey for all of his crazy moves isn't realistic (

I understand that. They decided to work a different style of match playing off their strengths in 2005, Rey's as being a brilliant underdog babyface who bring strategy, Eddie as being a brilliant bullying heel who brings the cheating. And it works on a lot of levels, they wrestle a very good match.

 

However, in 1997, they still had those strengths, if with a toned down strategy from Rey. In the Havoc match, they did all that, but still hit all the spots, still worked at a frenetic speed and had one of the greatest matches of all time.

 

I felt the 2005 match was kind of the 1997 match stretched out, with a more realistic feel and better 'psychology', but lacking the freshness and amazing spots and pace of 1997.

 

A lot of it comes down to what you like.

 

see their 3/28/04 Smackdown match where Rey attempts the flipping DDT and he is in place for it but Eddy just couldn't complete it

You have to remember though, that the same thing happened in their 11/10/97 Nitro match.

 

I think the main reason Eddie worked differently in 2005 was his extra bulk.

 

Replaced in the 6/23/05 match are extraordinary selling, some of the best I have ever seen in a WWE ring.

I don't remember the selling being that good. I certainly seem to recall Rey blowing off some extensive back work at one point.

 

But they replace the highspots of their younger days with selling and storytelling.

But I don't think they 'replace' thue highspots from Havoc - the 97 match had selling just as good as that from 2005, and the storytelling was fine as well.

 

Like I said before, I felt Havoc 97 had everything the 05 bout had, plus the amazing pace and highspots.

 

but what about the match didn't work for you?

I enjoyed the match, I just don't put it on the same level as Havoc.

 

There is not a whole lot I can technically criticise about the 06/05 match, but it didn't excite me, or have me out of my seat. What I saw was ne of the better matches of the year, but not something very memorable. Most of the action, while being very good, was kind of forgettable.

 

but Rey's 2004-2006 can easily be argued as a peak for work as an all around performer.

I don't see that at all. Yes, he's still a great worker, and is arguably the best sympathy face in the world, although I'd argue that Sydal is getting up there with him.

 

But a lot of the matches I've seen him in, he just feeds people the same old DDT and Bulldog reversals, does his contrived set ups for the 619 and the cheap pop, and has toned down the stylt that made him a star in the first place.

 

I think he's lost the aura of old. In 2002, he felt like a star. He had developed his selling and playing of the face role, and still had all his spots and amazing counters. I've rarely seen him that good since.

 

He has slowed down the pace lately, and replaced it with, yes, some better storytelling and psychology, but a lot more predictablity. Yes, it is because of the knee injury, and he's had to tone down, but to me, he's lost something as a worker and as a character.

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In 02 Rey was still sort of a special attraction, and the hot new thing. He was inbetween being the spot working speedy little man and the sympahty face guy he is now. I do think he had an incredible "Top This" style match with Angle at SS 02 that year, and some other good stuff, but I actually think alot of the SD stuff he was involved with from that year was overrated and I think at times he was a caricature of his former self, trying to work a style and present a pace that he couldn't keep up with anymore.

 

I think HH 97 is an incredible match. It is NOT a blowaway winner for best Rey match on U.S. soil, because he had a match with Psicosis at BATB that was an even better pure spot match, but with less of a story...and then there is the 05 match, which I think is right on that same level.

 

I agree that if you are looking for incredible spots and nice tight pacing the HH match is going to suit you more. But if you are looking for a story, that builds well and delivers on an established theme that has been the central focus of tv for months..well Havoc doesn't have that. It had more storyline behind it than the average cruiser match from the period, but comparing it to the 05 match would be laughable.

 

The point is that both matches are great and very much different in what they set out to accomplish. Both are at minimum legit candidates for best matches of the decade in their respective promotions. Both showcase different aspects of two of the best wrestlers of the last twenty years. Both belong in any "canon" of great matches to take place in this country over the last ten years.

 

Which one is better doesn't really matter to me.

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