anarchistxx Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 And there is now officialy little reason to watch ROH anymore. Samoa Joe is leaving after the British shows in March. They've lost Joe, Dragon, Ki, Lethal, Punk, Shelley and Gibson in the last 18 months. They haven't really replaced them. Happy days, with Delirious as the new top star. The Briscoes will likely be gone soon, and ROH shows were already looking really thin on decent talent without the Japanese imports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Why is he going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted January 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Not sure actually. He says he was 'forced' to leave I think. Can't be bothered to trail through the ROH forums, it says it apparently on the new video wire but I couldn't find the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 The speculation I read (and this is just me repeating it, so don't shoot the damn messenger) is that TNA was getting pressure from NJPW. ROH is heading into an interpromotional feud with NOAH, and Joe was supposed to be the focal point of that feud. NJPW and TNA have some sort of agreement already in place, and since Joe is under TNA contract, and TNA controls all his bookings...he got pulled from ROH. I'd rather hear what Herr Meltz has to say about it though before I believe anything, since he'll probably be able to get confirmations from his connections in both feds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 TNA has managed to kill Joe as a future star (at least in the near future), block a high-profile NOAH feud and turn the ROH crowd against him. Professional company, that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Danielson is coming back in April. So why would they need to replace him for now? Joe leaving sucks but in the long run, it is for the best. If TNA falls apart, Joe can come back, rested and fresh. The only bad part is that he was the ROH side of the NOAH feud, but hopefully this gives someone else the oppurtunity to step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Cooke Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Edit: Double Post - my work internet sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Well you know Homicide won't fill Joe's place if the NOAH thing is the issue with TNA. I would guess the Briscoes could fill in that slot, after their recent NOAH run, but it'll take some creative booking to say the least. Minus Joe and Danielson, I'm not sure I would go out of my way to drop twenty plus dollars on a ROH show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 TNA has managed to kill Joe as a future star (at least in the near future), block a high-profile NOAH feud and turn the ROH crowd against him. Professional company, that. I know it's the popular opinion with some people right now, but I don't think TNA has killed Joe as a star. They've diminished his appearance as a perceived monster, since he's lost to Kurt Angle, (who in fairness is their #1 guy) three times. He's still in the Main Event/Upper Card picture, and he's still booked as a tough guy, he's just not undefeated or looked at as unbeatable anymore. That had to end sooner or later. Don't get me wrong, I HATE the way Russo is booking TNA right now, and I wish he wasn't there. I think they pulled the trigger on Joe/Angle way too quickly and rushed the feud...but it's not Joe is a total de-pushed nobody now. In the WWECW, CM Punk was undefeated, getting big pops, and coming up strong. They jobbed him to Bob Freaking Holly. THAT is killing somebody as a future star. As far as them wrecking the NOAH feud for ROH (if they did) from their perspective...why should they care? ROH is an indy that draws 500 fans to a show, most of whom are not TNA fans. I don't see why Carter and Company should extend ROH any courtesy. ROH has nothing to offer TNA. If NJPW and TNA have an agreement to work together exclusively, or at least an agreement that TNA contracted talent will not work for NJPW's competition, then TNA is right to honor that. As far as the ROH fans? Fuck them. Seriously, I would say 7 out of 10 hardcore Ring of Honor fans are idiots who have no freaking grasp on reality. They turned on Joe because they think they're cool. I've seen some of them bitching and moaning on the DVDVR and ROH boards, and it's hilarious. Check this gem of a quote out: "...hopefully he (Joe) realizes just how fuckin dumb TNA is and wants to get back to his true fans and true fans of the business..." Yeah...earth to moron. Wrestling is a business. Joe makes more money and gets more mainstream exposure working in TNA than he ever will in ROH. He might have more fun working in ROH, but until he's a millionaire who can wrestle wherever he wants whenever he wants just for fun like a Mick Foley or a Bill Goldberg, then he'll always go with the money. I love ROH, and prefer it to TNA hands down...but I think some people like to make TNA out to be the devil for every little thing, and really all they're doing is picking at straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I wasn't even really saying TNA should have regard for ROH, as much as I was saying that TNA has created some real missed opportunities for Samoa Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I wasn't even really saying TNA should have regard for ROH, as much as I was saying that TNA as created some real missed opportunities for Samoa Joe. I think that Vince Russo has no idea how to book Joe, but in fairness I don't think Jeff Jarrett, Dutch Mantell, or even Jim Cornette do either. Jarrett only books to get himself over, when Mantell had the book by himself he was as much of a screw up as Russo, and Cornette is stuck in 1983. People like to laugh at the idea that Johnny Ace wanted Samoa Joe to be Umaga, but let's face it, Cornette probably would have loved that idea, and probably likes the Umaga character and concept. (Hell, I think it's worked brilliantly for what's it worth.) TNA needs a booker who knows and understands today's youth, market trends, and what's popular with wrestling's target demographic. Jim Cornette knows what white male rednecks from the South like to see, because that used to be the demographic he aimed for. Jeff Jarrett's main demographic is Jeff Jarrett, and he managed to convince Dixie Carter of that fact. I don't even think God knows what Mantell is thinking. People LOVE to bash Heyman, but you can't deny that he looks at what is the trend in youth culture, and books towards that. What did he give ECW fans? - Violence - Hot chicks in skimpy outfits catfighting - Alternative music - Most importantly, he appealed to the adolescent need to feel part of a counter-culture movement or underground...part of something that is NOT accepted by the mainstream. One of the few things he was able to do in WWECW was book CM Punk properly. Why? Because he paid attention. He booked Punk as an individualist who did things his own way, didn't like geeks, and had some MMA moves in his arsenal. Like it or not, MMA has replaced Pro Wrestling with kids as cool...and that's not going to change any time soon. Heyman knows this. Look at Gabe Saplowsky or whatever his name is. His key demographic is internet geeks. People who blow tons of money on DVD's, time matches, write reviews, give out star ratings, overanalyse the hell out of everything and take all the fun out of it...you know...people like US. This is a small but insanely loyal demographic and he books to their interests specifically. This is why he has been successful in his own limited way. I'm not saying TNA should try and get Heyman or Gabe but what TNA needs is somebody who understands the way your key demographic thinks in order to get guys like Joe over. Look at LAX, one of the few things TNA and Russo have NOT managed to fuck up. Why? They're cool, and they're current. Until they get that, TNA will just be a gig for guys like Joe, Low Ki, and other new generation guys, and it will continue to turn into a haven for guys like Angle, Sting and Christian, who still want to make money and be on TV, but not work as hard for it. That's what pisses me off, TNA could be so much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Well, Meltzer is saying in his news update today that they'll go into details in the next issue why this is going down, so I suppose we'll have to wait a while for his take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 The fuck Russo hasn't fucked up LAX. It was kind of a stupid idea to begin with, but all that burning the American flag shit was Russo. Then feuding with American Hero Petey Williams, then you have the Dudleys treating them like the Mulkeys, plus the upcoming addition of Machete and Apollo they are on life support. Homicide will be killed dead like Joe any minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I forgot about the burning of the American flag...the fans shit all over Cornette's reaction so bad they had to scrap the whole thing. I must have blocked it out. I never understood what Petey Williams role was supposed to be in all of this...especially since he doesn't have a partner. I blame Bubba Ray for treating LAX like chumps more than I do Russo...and I keep hoping that the Machete/Apollo stuff is just a rumor and it never actually happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 "...hopefully he (Joe) realizes just how fuckin dumb TNA is and wants to get back to his true fans and true fans of the business..." Holy shit, that makes me want to kick puppies. That quote sums up everything that irritates me about ROH fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 I wouldn't be surprised if at least part of the decision was motivated by the "Sorry for not being able to wrestle. On the way here I tripped over some bad booking." comment Joe made at an ROH show a few weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted February 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Latest news from Meltz is that TNA pulled Joe from ROH shows because they have plans for him to win the NWA Title pretty soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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