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Looks like one for Jose...


jdw

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My last post on WC was on January of 2004, I don't even "lurk" or read that place (regularly or semi-regularly or even once every few months). That doesn't mean I'm not willing to bring the discussion here...

 

This is the original list...

 

1. El Santo

2. El Solitario

3. Mil Mascaras

4. Rene Guajardo

5. Gori Guerrero

6. Tarzan Lopez

7. Ray Mendoza

8. Black Shadow

9. Blue Demon

10. Huracan Ramirez

11. Medico Asesino

12. Rayo De Jalisco

13. Karloff Lagarde

14. Los Espantos

15. Perro Aguayo

16. Villano III

17. Canek

18. Cavernario Galindo

19. Charro Aguayo

20. Alfonso Dantes

21. Fishman

22. Blackie Guzman

23. Dos Caras

24. Rolando Vera

25. Raul Romero

26. Anibal

27. Alberto Munoz

28. Javier Escobedo

29. Dientes Hernandez

30. Firpo Segura

31. Angel Blanco

32. Gladiator

33. Wolf Rubinski

34. Satoru Sayama

35. Lizmark

36. Ruben Juarez

37. Rito Romero

38. Sugi Sito

39. Raul Reyes

40. Sangre Chicana

41. Antonio Montoro

42. Felipe Ham Lee

43. Dory Dixon

44. Cesar Valentine

45. Ringo Mendoza

46. Enrique Vera

47. Tony Salazar

48. Kato Kung Lee

49. El Faraon

50. El Satanico

51. Bobby Bonales

52. Espectro I

53. Bulldog

54. El Enfermero

55. Halcon Dorado

56. America Rocca

57. Rayo De Jalisco Jr.

58. Atlantis

59. Super Astro

60. El Hijo Del Santo

61. Super Muneco

62. Tigre Ryan

63. Tinieblas

64. Colosso Colosetti

65. La Fiera

66. El Signo

67. Cien Caras

68. Adolfo Bonales

69. Merced Gomez

70. Murcielago Velazquez

71. Solar I

72. Juanito Diaz

73. El Nazi

74. Emilio Charles

75. Mishima Ota

76. Gorila Ramos

77. Gorila Macias

78. Vampiro

79. Konnan

80. Dandy

81. Pirata Morgan

82. El Gran Davis

83. Lobo Negro

84. Jack O'Brien

85. Matzura Matzuda

86. Jerry Estrada

87. Octagon

88. Los Brazos

89. Emilio Charles Jr.

90. Pierroth Jr.

91. Irma Gonzales

92. Chabela Romero

93. Lola Gonzales

94. Estela Molina

95. Pantera Surena

96. Killer

97. Daniel Aldana

98. Carnicero Butcher

99. Ciclon Veloz

100. Octabovia Gaona

 

To that list, as the "next generation" of huge superstars I'd add:

Rey Misterio Jr.

La Parka

Shocker

Dr. Wagner Jr.

Latin Lover

Ultimo Guerrero

Mistico

Universo 2000

Perro Aguayo Jr.

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At first sight, people can go in a few groups:

 

If they are not, they should be on the WON HOF

 

1. El Santo

2. El Solitario

3. Mil Mascaras

4. Rene Guajardo

5. Gori Guerrero

6. Tarzan Lopez

7. Ray Mendoza

8. Black Shadow

9. Blue Demon

15. Perro Aguayo

16. Villano III

17. Canek

18. Cavernario Galindo

60. El Hijo Del Santo

67. Cien Caras

 

Second line world HOF level (HOF worthy, but harder to argue)

 

10. Huracan Ramirez

12. Rayo De Jalisco

13. Karloff Lagarde

19. Charro Aguayo

23. Dos Caras

24. Rolando Vera

25. Raul Romero

26. Anibal

35. Lizmark

50. El Satanico

58. Atlantis

79. Konnan

 

Good for a Mexican HOF, but not for a world HOF

 

11. Medico Asesino (career was too short)

14. Los Espantos (Espanto III would be like Mike Von Erich on the WON HOF)

20. Alfonso Dantes (held many titles but I don't think he was a really huge star)

21. Fishman

22. Blackie Guzman

30. Firpo Segura

31. Angel Blanco (needs Dr. Wagner with him as a team)

37. Rito Romero

38. Sugi Sito

39. Raul Reyes (good career as a wrestler and successful promoter)

42. Felipe Ham Lee

43. Dory Dixon

33. Wolf Rubinski

52. Espectro I

66. El Signo (only if Texano and Navarro go with him as a package)

80. Dandy

87. Octagon

88. Los Brazos

 

Could be, but I'm not sure

 

70. Murcielago Velazquez

82. El Gran Davis

 

Had a great career, but I don't see it

 

32. Gladiator

45. Ringo Mendoza

59. Super Astro

64. Colosso Colosetti

71. Solar I

78. Vampiro (maybe if he hadn't fucked up so many times)

81. Pirata Morgan

89. Emilio Charles Jr.

90. Pierroth Jr.

91. Irma Gonzales

95. Pantera Surena

 

Not in a HOF for his lucha career

 

34. Satoru Sayama

 

Random old names that don't belong at all, but they are old so some people think they do

 

27. Alberto Munoz

28. Javier Escobedo (this would be like Hector Garza dying in 1996 before WCW and getting in)

29. Dientes Hernandez

36. Ruben Juarez

41. Antonio Montoro (tremendous Spaniard technical master, but Mexican career was short)

51. Bobby Bonales

53. Bulldog (he's on the "el Santo el Cavernario Blue Demon y el Bulldog" song so people think he was more famous than he was)

54. El Enfermero

55. Halcon Dorado

62. Tigre Ryan

68. Adolfo Bonales

69. Merced Gomez

72. Juanito Diaz

73. El Nazi

74. Emilio Charles

75. Mishima Ota

76. Gorila Ramos

77. Gorila Macias

83. Lobo Negro

84. Jack O'Brien

85. Matzura Matzuda

97. Daniel Aldana

98. Carnicero Butcher

99. Ciclon Veloz

100. Octavio Gaona

 

Very good worker, but no

 

40. Sangre Chicana

44. Cesar Valentine

47. Tony Salazar

49. El Faraon

56. America Rocca

65. La Fiera

86. Jerry Estrada

92. Chabela Romero

93. Lola Gonzales

 

You are in the list to fill in the women quote

 

94. Estela Molina

 

You fucking suck

 

46. Enrique Vera

48. Kato Kung Lee

57. Rayo De Jalisco Jr.

61. Super Muneco

63. Tinieblas

 

Who did you screw to get on the list?

 

96. Killer

 

Who did you piss off to be left off the list?

Negro Casas

Dr. Wagner

Negro Navarro and El Texano

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Re: Super Astro

 

Interesting question. He was a great, great worker, who has been involved in many incredible matches in the last 25 years, but never was in a promineltly pushed position on TV, so he doesn't have the notoriety he probably should. His biggest run was 83-84 at El Toreo, but by then the promotion was mainly focused on heavyweights and some light-heavyweights.

 

I always got the impression he was more of a "free spirit" and liked to move around, and he probably was better used in the "guest star" role than as somebody featured weekly on TV. While he had a really great formula style match, in the end it was a formula match and it would have hurt him to be showcased on TV doing the same thing over and over.

 

As for his influence, he was somebody that the Tijuana crew (Konnan, Misterioso or both Rey Misterios) looked up to, because he was so spectacular and did such cool things. But he wasn't doing anything new. His trademark moves were something Rayo de Jalisco, Blackman or Tiger Mask were doing, except maybe the tope atomico to the outside (which could be his invention for all I know). He was a great worker and a guy who did spectacular dives (in an aesthetic way), but executed the dives with an "added weight" that made them look like they actually hurt and it wasn't just a nice flip.

 

He was a great worker during decades and had star recognition all over the country, but he wasn't a big enough star to justify his inclusion even in a Mexico only HOF with strict entry criteria.

 

He'd be one of my first entries in a "cool motherfuckers" HOF, though, as he's involved in one of my favourite matches ever (Brazos vs. Astro, Dandy & Popitekus).

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Super Astro looks great in the lucha environment, but it was actually seeing him in Hamada's UWF that really put him over the top for me. He had great chemistry with Negro Casas. Hopefully, there's a singles match out there between the two that will eventually be uncovered, if it hasn't already been. It was odd to see Casas doing his tribute to Nobuhiko Takada and really looking awesome working a totally different style. No mullet, and lots of great UWF-style kicks and matwork.

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