Guest Spunk Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 It seems like Austin was the only guy in wrestling who had a major injury and then adapted his style to do the most he could with as little strain on injured parts as possible. During Austin's last heel run (when Helmsley went down) Austin was doing the opponent reverses a suplex and Austin eats a suplex on the ramp spot in every match. Also was the guy who turned the three rolling suplexes spot into the count along equivalent of Hase's giant swing "EIGHT! NINE! TEN!". Oh man, I had totally forgotten about the ramp suplex spot. That seriously WAS like every fucking match. Also can we stop talking about steroids, as ResidentEvil/wilgpegasus always really creeps me out when we get onto this subject. Hell, the Kobashi talk by him in general still creeps me out, as does Benoit talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Pro Wrestling Only. A bunch of tough guys who are easily creeped out. ....(not everyone)...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 I believe the "Austin toned down his style" talking point refers to '98-'99, the more immediate aftermath of the botched piledriver, not the post-surgical period of '00-'02 where he was taking ridiculous bumps like the aforementioned ramp suplex. Pro Wrestling Only. A bunch of tough guys who are easily creeped out. ....(not everyone)......??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 That's one of the most overused sayings on internet message boards. "I'm creeped out" It's something high school girls, and freshmen college girls use in their lingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 I know we're getting off topic from Kobashi here, but since it concerns injuries, am I the only one who thinks JBL getting back in the ring is a really bad idea and that his back is going to start acting up real quick after his return and will most likely force him back into retirement some time before the end of 2008? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 Austin didn't "tone down" his style, but he did change things up somewhat, which I think was as much to match his shift in character was it was to deal with injuries. He still never really took nights off at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spunk Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 That's one of the most overused sayings on internet message boards. "I'm creeped out" It's something high school girls, and freshmen college girls use in their lingo. Like, you know, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Yeah, I don't know how anyone thinks Austin took any night off. That guy busted his ass every time he walked out to the ring. That's the reason he's not wrestling anymore. He can't do it anymore, and he doesn't want to half ass it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Reading about the procedures JBL endured to be able to have a normally functional post-wrestling life made me think it was a really bad idea for him to come back. It seems like the whole reason he's doing it is because he wasn't happy with his final run of matches, since his back was so messed up it was making him piss himself. I don't understand it, he had a good gig as an announcer and could have probably done that for the rest of his life. Instead, he's going to risk re-injuring his spine that required experimental new procedures to repair just to be able to retire on "his terms". Why? This is arguably worse than Angle getting the different kind of neck surgery and then going back to doing moonsaults and whatnot. By the way, I never said Austin "toned down" anything. I said he adapted his style after an injury, then a bunch of dudes started arguing a point no one made just to get back to agreeing with what I had said in my original comment. Also this: That's one of the most overused sayings on internet message boards. "I'm creeped out" I'd wager that's more a reflection of the ratio of creepy folks posting on internet message boards rather than the sensitivity of the readers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted December 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Reading about the procedures JBL endured to be able to have a normally functional post-wrestling life made me think it was a really bad idea for him to come back. It seems like the whole reason he's doing it is because he wasn't happy with his final run of matches, since his back was so messed up it was making him piss himself. I don't understand it, he had a good gig as an announcer and could have probably done that for the rest of his life. Instead, he's going to risk re-injuring his spine that required experimental new procedures to repair just to be able to retire on "his terms". Why? This is arguably worse than Angle getting the different kind of neck surgery and then going back to doing moonsaults and whatnot. It's the mindset of what it takes to be a professional wrestler. I understand it because I some of the same qualities mentally. If I was a wrestler, I know I'd have a hard time getting away from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Why do athletes try to mount comebacks? Commentating isn't part of the spotlight. Maybe it was killing JBL to be stuck behind the table. I don't think it's particularly noble or anything, but it's pretty natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Kobashi also "adapted" his style post injury. Hardly ever pulled out the moonsault (did he use it in any match between 2003-2005 outside of the Takayama title defense?). I remember joking in 2003 that he was a guy who needed to study some Arn tapes and learn some comedy spots as he didn't know how to kill time in the middle of his matches outside of exchanging suplexes. Insteading of looking to Arn he looked to Flair tapes...and added the rapid fire chop comedy spot and the opponent puts him in figure four section as his middle of match time killers. There were problems with this setup. Flair gets a lot of criticism for forcing all his opponents to work the same way (as though Luger and Gordy are the same guy). Kobashi forced all his opponents to work like Flair (innefectively chopping Kobashi in corner which is reversed, set upping and then applying figure four on Kobashi which he powers out of, etc) no matter who they were (Ogawa working like Flair makes sense, Rikioh is a power wrestler and kind of silly for him to be working same formula). And one can question the whole theory behind it as the Flair formula is one where the faces come out looking strong, the Kobashi formula of making opponent work like Flair made Kobashi look strong. But there were huge advantages. It is effective way to work a match, with lots of stuff that pops a crowd and protects his body during the time killing parts of a match alot more than exchanging headdrops did. And were just better matches. Chono adapted, Liger famously adapted. Austin had a bad neck injury and "adapted" his style to one where he ate more suplexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 To what extent to people think Kobashi uses steroids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 To the extent that everyone in wrestling uses steroids. Even Hornswoggle. As for JBL, He's probably using the whole Fight till i'm dead mentality that most wrestlers use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 To what extent to people think Kobashi uses steroids? Boatloads. I think most everyone has known that. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Yeah, considering the Road Warriors taught him how to "work out" properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Alright, I don't know if he uses them in moderation or abuses them. Kobashi work out stories are crazy. Whatever the case, his operation took longer than expected because he has three times the muscle mass than regular people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I don't know if anyone truly knows about Kobashi and roids besides guesswork. I'd love to hear some Kobashi workout stories. Anyone share if they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Well by some token you could say nobody truly knows about Scott Steiner and roids besides guesswork, but COME ON. I mean, WP, you're into bodybuilding. You should be able to spot a guy who's bigger that a person can naturally get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I don't know if anyone truly knows about Kobashi and roids besides guesswork. I'd love to hear some Kobashi workout stories. Anyone share if they can. Eh, it's all in Japanese, but basically Kobashi was into body building before he ever joined All Japan. When he entered the All Japan dojo, he used to start training every morning at 5:30am. Apparently, Tenryu used to give him shit about how much he worked out. There's a story about how Kobashi's workouts are so relentless that KENTA had to be hospitalised once from exhaustion. And apparently on a flight from Atlanta to St. Louis he asked for permission to work out with his shirt off. I'll try to get it in more detail if you're really interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I don't know if anyone truly knows about Kobashi and roids besides guesswork. Since there wasn't any good documentation on Chris using juice and HGH until he was, you know, a literally rotting corpse... all of our discussions about his usage going back more than a decade and a half was nothing more than guesswork and no on truly knew anything. Life would be easier to be agnostic about juice and performancing enhancers. But I can't pretend to be that stupid. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Alright, I don't know if he uses them in moderation or abuses them. Using juice in "moderation" is a bit like using smack "recreationally". A work. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Well by some token you could say nobody truly knows about Scott Steiner and roids besides guesswork, but COME ON. I mean, WP, you're into bodybuilding. You should be able to spot a guy who's bigger that a person can naturally get. Yeah, I know who's most likely on and off and if they're abusing/on less and all of that. The one thing I don't like to do though is accuse people of doing it beforehand or present it as fact if the fact is not proven true. Even with the super obvious cases. I'm not commenting or giving my opinion on Kobashi/roids at all for the time being. I just think it's the respectful thing to do. One can speculate but I don't like to pass it off as fact. I was just pointing out that there was some speculation here that was kind of presented as fact Since there wasn't any good documentation on Chris using juice and HGH until he was, you know, a literally rotting corpse... all of our discussions about his usage going back more than a decade and a half was nothing more than guesswork and no on truly knew anything. Life would be easier to be agnostic about juice and performancing enhancers. But I can't pretend to be that stupid. John I'm the last person turns a blind eye to anything wether it be steroids or other drugs like alcohol,nicotine or crack. Benoit was one of the most obvious users of bodybuilding drugs in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 And apparently on a flight from Atlanta to St. Louis he asked for permission to work out with his shirt off. This is an odd story. Kobashi had always wanted to wrestle in America, since All Japan had some trouble when he was a trainee and he wasn't able to go. After he took his shirt off, the female cabin attendant was surprised and said "great muscles," but then a gay looking guy suddenly touched his crotch. Kobashi was distressed and mumbled something like, "America scares me", but as soon as he got off the plane the first thing he asked was whether there was a gym still open at 11pm. There's some sort of running joke that the reason Kobashi has never gotten married is because he can't find a wife who will put up with his work out regime -- getting up at 4:30am to get ready to train and he also has the air conditioner on at 14 degrees all the time because he sweats so much. Akiyama refused to share a room with him because he had to wrap himself up in so many blankets. Seems like the guy's whole life is training and wrestling. Akira Taue was one of Baba's favourites, but hated training to Baba's dismay. He used to tell Taue that he doesn't do 1/10th the training that Kobashi does. Kawada once joked after one of their draws that a steel edged sword couldn't beat Kobashi, so maybe he should use a dumbbell. As far as the cancer thing goes, the morning he found out he had to go to some fan day, which he did, keeping the news a secret from everyone. When he finally announced it, he promised the fans he would return to the ring and Japanese people are pretty serious about keeping promises. After his surgery, his rehabilitation mostly involved weight training. He got his weight back up to 115kg, after being about 100kg post-op. I guess the idea of a return match helped his recovery. Kyoko Inoue also had a tumour removed recently, but she had to give birth first. Needless to say it was a complicated pregnancy. She's pretty motivated to make a return next year for her 20th Anniversary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted December 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 Thanks for the response Ohtani's Jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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