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"Macho Madness: The Randy Savage Ultimate Collection"


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#41 Jingus

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:45 PM

I was surprised by Meltzer saying that, I always thought it was just one of those DVDVR Sleaze Thread rumors. Can someone remind me what the specific story is supposed to be? All I can remember is that it's something to do with Macho Man sticking his pee-pee in young Stephanie's hoo-haa, when she was 18 at the very oldest.

#42 tigerpride

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 11:13 PM

68. Macho Man had his way with Stephanie (she was about 14 then) back in 94/95 and that Vince found out and that was the true ending for Macho Man in WWF. Sleaze thread

#43 Strummer

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:03 AM

Stephanie turned 18 in September 1994 and Savage left in November/December 94. She was just entering her Freshman year at Boston University. So if it's true that's pretty sleazy even by wrestling standards

#44 Strummer

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:07 AM

also Kevin Nash told a story about going out to dinner with Stephanie alone around the time of Summerslam 94 and Shane showing up and basically saying "Dude that's my sister, she's not even 18 yet"

#45 jdw

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 04:56 PM

"At this time, obviously conspicuous by his absence, is the Macho Man Randy Savage. I'd like to announce, unfortunately, that Randy Savage has been unable to sign a contract with the World Wrestling Federation, not... unable to, rather, come to terms with the World Wrestling Federation for a new contract. But Randy, I know you're out there listening, and on behalf of all of us here in the World Wrestling Federation, all of your fans, and certainly, me, the number one fan, I'd like to say, thank you for all of your positive contributions to the World Wrestling Federation, thank you, Randy Savage, for all the wonderful memories for so many years here in the World Wrestling Federation. We wish you nothing but the best. Godspeed, and good luck."
-Vince McMahon, 11/07/94 Raw


Sound like something you'd say to someone you just fired because he was fucking your 17 year old daughter? Setting aside that Vince is really fucked in the head, he was *that* fucked in the head back in 1994 to put over Randy like that.

Macho signed with WCW in the middle of Novermber 1994 for around $400K base, which was large money at the time since wrestling was really down. He had been talking to WCW before that.

I think the "hate" that Vince worked up over Savage came later. He was fond of him when he left. At the time, Eric was throwing some big cash around for Hogan and Savage. Vince wasn't remotely in the Billion Dollar Ted mode at that point as everyone thought Eric would just spend himself out of business at that point even with a few deals like that. Vince also thought he had The Next Big Thing in Nash.

It's possible that Dave is joking in the stuff above. It's hard to imagine him buying the bullshit on this one.

John

#46 Boondocks Kernoodle

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 05:47 PM

I transcribed Dave's comments on this from Monday night, complete with "you know"s and "I mean"s out the wazoo, and he doesn't seem to be joking at all, except maybe the Oliver thing. I don't know what that's about. "I think that the reason is the same reason that everyone says. It's the reason everyone in the company says. It's the reason that is the only one that makes any sense. So I think that's the reason. I can't come up with any other reason. I don't know. I mean, I've heard that reason from so many people that are not internet rumormongers, I mean people who - all I know is that within the company as far as the top people, they all believe it, and nobody knows for sure, because it's never brought up...When I first heard the story I didn't believe it because I thought it was just some story, but then, and I mean even when people who are very high up in that company, after they left the company, would tell me that story I still didn't believe it, but, you know, after a certain number of years when it's just, you know, ideas are brought up for Randy Savage and the reaction - there's something real, real bad because, let's face it, I mean, I couldn't count the number of times Vince said he would never do business with Hulk Hogan, and he always does. So, I don't know...Actually, as time goes by, more people talk about it trying to say that it didn't happen. You should ask Oliver, 'cause Oliver knows."

#47 Boondocks Kernoodle

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 05:52 PM

Whatever he knows, Oliver ain't talking. (From a thread about his MMA podcast, his replies are in bold)

"Good show but needed some Randy Savage talk."

"Not going to happen, sorry."

"I will spill the beans for 10 lortabs.....they must be 10mg Blue Watson... "

"You can drug me and I won't talk about it. Let it go. Please."

"Cryptic"

"No, not cryptic. Just let it go. Nothing to see here."

#48 jdw

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 09:39 PM

So perhaps someone can ask Dave a few questions: * what year did it allegedly happen? * when did Dave first hear the rumor? * when did Vince allegedly first find out about it? John

#49 Bix

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Posted 11 March 2009 - 10:15 PM

Also...who posted about it in the sleaze thread? I've been told that the rumor originated in the company, and based on what Dave says, I presume he never heard about it until after the sleaze thread. Part of me wonders if the post in the sleaze thread was a joke and it just happened to be true. So now it seems that for whatever reason, Oliver Copp has the best knowledge of what happened, but...why? How does a German TV announcer/part time computer programmer turned MMA reporter know the specifics that eluded Dave Meltzer and a large amount of current and former WWE personnel?

#50 jdw

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 02:03 AM

More likely a joke that's become "true" just by being retold. There are times where I just don't get Dave's "everybody believes it's true so it must be" nonsense. Most people in wrestling thought UFC was a work early. Then they thought they weren't really tough and the toughest guys in pro wrestling could take them. Dave use to laugh that stuff off. That and more... and endless string of things that people in the business believed that Dave would laugh off. I'd be interested in the answer to the questions above. John

#51 Marty

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 06:31 AM

So perhaps someone can ask Dave a few questions:

* what year did it allegedly happen?

* when did Dave first hear the rumor?

* when did Vince allegedly first find out about it?

John


I'd like to know the answer to these questions too. When I first heard the rumour, it was that Savage banged a 14-year-old Stephanie, which would've been circa 1990-91. Now no one even specifies how old she was (just that it was before she was 18).

I'd especially like to know when Vince allegedly first found out that rumour too. I have the occasional WWE publication since Savage left the company, and there have been some that have presented him in praise-like fashion. There was one in 2002/03 where they had a fantasy matchup between Triple H and Savage, with the consensus being that a match like that would be "too close to call". On top of that, there was this inaugural Smackdown Magazine issue after they rebranded it from WWE Magazine:

http://www.hoffco-in...mdn2003-13.html

I'm inclined to still believe that Savage and Vince simply have professional differences. Savage is closer to Bruno on Vince's list than he is to, say, Benoit.

#52 kjh

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 06:34 AM

The story just doesn't make any sense unless Vince found out many, many years after the alleged incident took place, as the WWF and Randy Savage had negotiations to bring him back when his WCW contract expired in late '96 and late '99.

#53 Marty

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 06:43 AM

The story just doesn't make any sense unless Vince found out many, many years after the alleged incident took place, as the WWF and Randy Savage had negotiations to bring him back when his WCW contract expired in late '96 and late '99.


Given Vince's mental state in recent years, this is the only plausible scenario.

#54 Loss

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 09:22 AM

Do you think Vince would care even if it did happen? Sure, I think he would if she were underage when it happened, but if it happened in '94, she wouldn't have been. And while he wasn't initially receptive to it, it didn't take much arm wringing when Stephanie started dating HHH.

#55 jdw

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:40 AM

It just doesn't pass the laugh test. I think people want to believe it because it fits the sleeze of the business, and stuff like Cornette and the Banana is old news. Folks need New Dirt. John

#56 S.L.L.

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 12:44 PM

The story just doesn't make any sense unless Vince found out many, many years after the alleged incident took place, as the WWF and Randy Savage had negotiations to bring him back when his WCW contract expired in late '96 and late '99.


Given Vince's mental state in recent years, this is the only plausible scenario.


Yeah, my understanding of it in recent times - for whatever that's worth - was that it wasn't true, and Vince knew it not to be true, but it got repeated so many times that Vince just kinda started believing it because he's an insane old man who's lost all connection to reality.

Meltzer believes it, but Meltzer also believes that MMA is "real" wrestling and Kurt Angle is an all-time great worker and has otherwise proven he can be really, really gullible if you give him a chance. Personally, I wouldn't look too hard at this. I don't think there's much there to see.

#57 Bix

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 02:24 PM

"Even if it didn't happen, Vince believes it did" seems to be the most logical explanation though "Oliver knows" implied that something did happen.

Someone reminded me that Vince and Linda were very close with Savage and Liz. Even if Stephanie wasn't involved in any way, shape, It can't be the initial departure, given Vince seemed willing to do business for close to a decade afterwards, so it's not the initial "betrayal" of leaving or anything having to do with the Slim Jim sponsorship (as someone speculated at the F4W forums a few months ago). Maybe Savage spent enough time w/ the McMahons to be around Stephanie a lot? Maybe Vince and/or Linda didn't know he abused Liz until after she died for some reason and then decided to shun him? It doesn't exactly make sense given Austin's presence and the fact that it's wrestling, but I can't think of anything else that would be deemed so bad by Vince.

They've tried to do business with everyone else. Even after the latest blow-up with Warrior over the DVD, they still let Jakks work out deals to make Classic Superstars action figures of him, but they refuse to let Jakks make Savage figures as part of the line (the deals are done through Jakks and not WWE, which is why they released a Bruno figure). Foley (in TNA) and Savage are the only wrestlers he banned THQ from putting in the Legends of Wrestlemania game (it covers through WM15 in case you were wondering about Benoit).

Even with Vince being crazy, he's always been willing to do business with everyone from Ventura (came down on the company hard Re: Owen Hart, didn't lose his spot after his union proposal pre-WM2) to Slaughter (fired for talking union and making his own merchandise deals) to Warrior (held him up for a huge amount of money) to Hogan (various things that led to Vince declaring he'd never be back over and over) to Bret Hart (punched him in the face among other things) to Superstar Graham (accused his #2 of child molestation) when he thought they would benefit his company or if he was in a forgiving mood. So if it doesn't involve the Stephanie rumor in any way (even if it was Vince believing a false rumor) what did Savage do so bad that when his name is brought up, everyone gets terrified and Vince spews a level of venom that nobody else gets?

#58 Loss

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 03:34 PM

Maybe Vince and/or Linda didn't know he abused Liz until after she died for some reason and then decided to shun him?


It's obviously not a tough conclusion to draw, but where has this been confirmed?

#59 Bix

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 03:43 PM

Maybe Vince and/or Linda didn't know he abused Liz until after she died for some reason and then decided to shun him?


It's obviously not a tough conclusion to draw, but where has this been confirmed?

That Savage was abusive in some way? The WON Liz obit didn't say he beat her, but did give examples of emotional abuse, like forcing Liz to stay at home with frozen dinners because he didn't want her leaving the house, as well as ordering her out of a pool after she started talking to 2 "very obviously gay men" who recognized her. There's also the whole matter of the Bolleas apparently convincing her to leave him.

#60 Loss

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 03:53 PM

Gotcha. I was thinking it had been covered somewhere that he physically abused her, which I didn't remember ever hearing.




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