Dave Meltzer stuff

[Fando]

He's a journalist that covers one of the most shallow, looks-based businesses in the world. It was weird that he answered the question about her attractiveness instead of leaving it at "that's neither here nor there." It shouldn't be that weird that he pointed out her massive implants which were, if you go by history, likely done at the company's pleasure in order to advance her career, have made the team look more generic.

 

[sek69]

It is such a pro wrestling thing that Dave trying to diplomatically mention her company mandatded boob job (in the most Dave way possible) got turned into wrestlers claiming he wants all women to get an eating disorder and starve.

I mean, it's not like WWE has ever given anyone not in their wheelhouse of beauty a gimmick of being called fat and dumpy .....*puts finger to earpiece*....oh, I see....

[Beast]

The wrestling fan twitter pile-on is more disturbing to me.

It's like this comment exists in a vacuum. 

Peyton retweeting the clip must have been a big difference in the amount of reaction Dave usually receives about various things because he apologized and walked it back immediately. 

[sek69]

Women's wrestling twitter is probably the most scariest place on the internet. 

[hammerva]

are we really having the argument that because Peyton Royce works for Vince she should just keep her mouth shut when someone says he isn't as attractive as she used to be?   That is some serious Clay Travis "men men men" bullshit if true

[sek69]

Just now, hammerva said:

are we really having the argument that because Peyton Royce works for Vince she should just keep her mouth shut when someone says he isn't as attractive as she used to be?   That is some serious Clay Travis "men men men" bullshit if true

I'm wondering if she had the same outrage when she had her WWE mandated boob job, is all. IMO that's worse than anything Dave said because they expect their women to undergo body modifying surgery to advance. I'm sure no one in the company has ever directly said it, but it's clearly the women's equivalent of encouraging the guys to get on the gas. 

[hammerva]

Again you are saying she doesn't have the right to be offended because of where she works.   So if she quit the WWE and then called out Meltzer it would be respected and not just be another snowflake getting easily defended.   Yeah seriously doubt it

 

 

[Robert S]

48 minutes ago, Fando said:

The pile-on by WWE personnel to show what good drones they are was amazing to watch just now, particularly Finlay calling Dave a "parasite" (Nothing problematic there, no!) and Bischoff retweeting for the lulz. And not one would publicly criticize anything done by the company, even as recently as the Nia Jax and Mickie James bullshit, and definitely not the Saudi contract which gave them their Evolution PPV while women activists are being jailed.

Finlay really used that wording? Wow. Over here that probably would classify as a violation to the Prohibition Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotsgesetz_1947) and would have serious legal repercussions for Finlay.

[NintendoLogic]

Can we all move along now?

[Fando]

5 minutes ago, Robert S said:

Finlay really used that wording? Wow. Over here that probably would classify as a violation to the Prohibition Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbotsgesetz_1947) and would have serious legal repercussions for Finlay.

 

[tlk23]

"I thought that they had a cool act in NXT and on the main roster, I don't get a thing out of them. I don't think their promos are particularly good. Their wrestling isn't good. I think Peyton Royce's transformation to look more attractive, I don't know. I don't want to say." - Dave

"She was more attractive in NXT?" - Bryan

"I thought so. Yes. To me, yes. But that's neither here nor there." - Dave

"No one is saying she's unattractive everybody." - Bryan

I know. No shit. I didn't say it at all. She doesn't stand out to me. When she was in NXT, she did..... She was a lot lighter."  - Dave


So if he leaves out that last line, would everyone be ok? When did he say that wasn't true or just an observation? Nobody has a problem with Dave saying they/she is not a over as they were in NXT. Everyone would agree with that. He thinks that her character (everything from her mic skills, wrestling, to her look) was better at NXT.

[Robert S]

12 minutes ago, Fando said:

 

What a moron. I can only assume (hope) that he is either not aware of the historical connotations of the word "parasite" as part of antisemitism and/or he does not realize that Meltzer is Jewish.

[Fando]

Putting aside what he said for a second and that he was was not talking about her needing to lose weight, this is as good a view of how talent today is taught to think of Meltzer/WON as we're likely to get. Calling him a "parasite," "Sheep" (Nia Jax), "disgusting" (Beth Phoenix), "a piece of hot garbage' (Renee Young), meanwhile of course there's not and will not ever be one retweet of him sticking up for talent, especially the women on the roster after the disgraceful Saudi show, his criticism of the age-shaming and body-shaming angles over the last year,  a wrestler's union...they don't actually read him or hear whatever second hand, and then shit like this is used to bash him as a journalist. Completely in bad faith on Bischoff's part. It's all fucking gross.

[NintendoLogic]

Dave also posted the following on the F4W board:

Quote

I screwed up bad. Whether we want to admit it or not, there is a double standard when it comes to commenting on men and women's bodies and in wrestling and my mentality of wanting to treat everyone the same didn't take into account that women often starve themselves for looks which guys don't, that what I said, and I think many do understand what I meant, was a subject I should have avoided and that I have learned from this mistake.

For those who defend me on this, thanks, and I know you understand I meant no harm, but it was still a mistake to learn from.

Of course, none of this will placate the Twitter outrage mob, but what can you do.

[Jmare007]

Holy shit at how things have escalated, everyone going in on Dave

[Al]

The entire industry piling up on Meltzer will get tiresome. Peyton herself had every right to speak up though, and was right to do so.

[SomethingSavage]

This idea of Dave having some supreme "journalistic integrity" is so laughable. Is the guy a knowledgeable historian? Sure. And I can respect that. But I don't really think he's any more knowledgeable than, say, Jim Cornette.

But I recognize both have shitty opinions when it comes to some things, and I don't mind at all when someone has the good common sense to call them out on it or simply point that out.

It's also a bit bizarre that everyone is behaving like Peyton got implants out of pure pressure or fear of losing her job. Has anyone asked her? Does the WON mob speak to her personally? Believe it or not, guys... Some chicks want bigger boobs and willingly go out of their way to get them on their own. It's not strictly a wrestling thing or an entertainment industry thing. It's a real world, "appearance matters" thing. Plenty of girls save up their own hard-earned cash to pay for them shits.

[El-P]

1 hour ago, Robert S said:

What a moron. I can only assume (hope) that he is either not aware of the historical connotations of the word "parasite" as part of antisemitism and/or he does not realize that Meltzer is Jewish.

Oh man, yeah, this one is brutal.

And yeah, Meltz apologized. You know, like real people, not mindless corporate drones and Twitter-low-IQ sheep, do.

I also learned the meaning of "on the spectrum" today (I mean, in English I had no idea what it meant), so I got something out of this mess. And if that is the case, all more support to Meltz (no matter if I agree or disagree with him).

[Fando]

10 minutes ago, El-P said:

Oh man, yeah, this one is brutal.

And yeah, Meltz apologized. You know, like real people, not mindless corporate drones and Twitter-low-IQ sheep, do.

I also learned the meaning of "on the spectrum" today (I mean, in English I had no idea what it meant), so I got something out of this mess. And if that is the case, all more support to Meltz (no matter if I agree or disagree with him).

Not good enough

 

[El-P]

Of course not good enough, what do you expect from these people ? A functioning brain ? 

 

[Childs]

If you remove the outrage machine, this was actually a fine example of adult discourse.

 Dave made a thoughtless comment.

Peyton, the person directly hurt by it, spoke up.

Dave apologized and acknowledged he needs to be more mindful going forward.

 

[Coffey]

A Twitter user to Dave after his apology: "An apology is not enough! You should be fired."

I laughed... but then thought it was a good way to summarize how I feel about it all. Not saying that what Dave Meltzer said was acceptable - regardless of if he's talking about her tits or weight - but people on Twitter will get outraged about things even when they know nothing about the people involved. 

Twitter is weird. It's basically just a social media mob roaming around from one issue to the next & then everyone piling on that until the new shiny thing pops up.

[sek69]

Who's going to fire Dave? One of the MMA sites he freelances for? I doubt they are in any rush to white knight someone in defense of women when, well *gestures at MMA fandom*

[El-P]

It's social media. It's the fact people are hiding behind a keyboard. I'm sure 99% would never ever act that way during an argument or a discussion IRL. Well, I may be optimistic, but I do believe it would be the case. Immediacy of exchange helps.

(one day a known movie reviewer and I were arguing on some movie blog, and he ended up working himself so hard he told me I didn't deserve to be called a human being !  A common friend told me after the fact he was actually super nice and easy going IRL but was regularly losing his shit on Internet)

[Zoo Enthusiast]

If he had actually just said something along the lines of "she stood out more before she was forced to get breast implants," instead of trying to be coy about what he was trying to say, it likely would have gone over much better.    It also could have led to a productive discussion about patriarchy/misogyny/body image (though it's not like that'd happen with Bryan Alvarez on the other mic).

In this case he came off a shade better than some creep commenting on a woman wrestler's Instagram.  That said, it is a bit much that every "sir, I'd like to speak to your manager, sir" person on Twitter showed up, but that's what the medium is mostly for.