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Dave Meltzer stuff


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#7541 rzombie1988

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:21 PM

PWG in a different building just wouldn't feel like PWG. Their armory is part of the charm. Also I'm not sure I've ever seen people chalk up PWG drawing 400 people as impressive. It's never been the number of people, but the people it draws.

There's no lack of celebs in LA. There's tens of thousands and you know if a celeb wants to come, PWG's gonna bend over backwards to get them in. Everyone in LA sees celebs at some point. Now there's a lack of celebs in the middle of PA here or in Alabama and drawing celebs in those places would be impressive.



#7542 Sean Liska

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:19 PM

I know he deals with a lot of trolls but if Dave could ever comprehend the idea that people have different tastes when it comes to entertainment, that would be a nice moment. Someone said Will Ospreay is one of the best storytellers in the world and Dave on Twitter replies - "Don't say that, all the people who still think the Earth is flat have their religion short-circuited by such a statement.". Someone complains about overt choreography in wrestling and he says - "Every generation says that about everything new. Nothing wrong with it. In time, you'll see it over and over again." To me it comes back to the double standard of him giving Hogan-Andre negative stars while they worked a perfect match for the stadium and fans there.

 

Damn it I said I wasn't going to let myself be negative on Dave after subscribing for 25 years and loving the guy but he is on a tear on Twitter today.



#7543 Bix

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:30 PM

Dave's primary job isn't to watch everything. It's to watch what's either hot or catching on. He reports on business first and foremost. He has commented on Trevor Lee and Io Shirai and modern All Japan and other stuff in a way that makes me think he watches way more than he talks about. Still, there are only so many hours in a day, and how can we ask this guy to spend even more time on wrestling than he already does?

 

Well, specific to Evolve, it's deeper than that:

 

From WON coverage, Dave's social media and audio, etc, you'd barely know the promotion existed, which is weird if just because of the WWE deal (and Gabe now being a consultant in NXT). Once, someone on Twitter asked Dave why he doesn't review Evolve shows and he gave a "reading is your friend, I did in the new issue" reply when he didn't review the latest shows, he just gave the results. Online and in the WON, he gave the attendance for the last NYC show as 150-200ish, when literally everyone else said it was about 450-600, which is a big difference. "Dave Meltzer doesn't watch Evolve" is now enough of a thing that Ethan Page joked about it with ACH on their show on FloSlam. There are a bunch of Wrestling Twitter conspiracy theories about it and I don't really buy any of them, but I get why people find it weird and want an explanation. Doesn't help that Dave doesn't reply when asked if he watches Evolve, or about other Evolve-related stuff, on top of the perception that he's not covering various issues within ROH.



#7544 rzombie1988

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:51 PM

 To me it comes back to the double standard of him giving Hogan-Andre negative stars while they worked a perfect match for the stadium and fans there.

 

 

Andre/Hogan was actually GOOD. That's the worst part. The match made sense. Hogan tries to slam Andre and hurts his back. So Andre works the back before Hogan finally slams him to win. Real simple stuff.



#7545 El-P

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:01 PM

 

 To me it comes back to the double standard of him giving Hogan-Andre negative stars while they worked a perfect match for the stadium and fans there.

 

 

Andre/Hogan was actually GOOD. That's the worst part. The match made sense. Hogan tries to slam Andre and hurts his back. So Andre works the back before Hogan finally slams him to win. Real simple stuff.

 

 

...which mostly looked like crap too because Andre really couldn't do much that looked any good. Not to mention Hogan "finally slamming Andre" after he couldn't do it the first time and had his back worked the entire time doesn't make one lick of sense if you really think about it. People are all up in arms with "selling" and "storytelling" that "make sense", but when you simply think two secs about stuff like this, it actually make no sense whatsoever. It "works", but it doesn't look good and it's kinda stupid, really, like any "hulking up" sequence is.



#7546 FMKK

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:11 PM

 

 

 To me it comes back to the double standard of him giving Hogan-Andre negative stars while they worked a perfect match for the stadium and fans there.

 

 

Andre/Hogan was actually GOOD. That's the worst part. The match made sense. Hogan tries to slam Andre and hurts his back. So Andre works the back before Hogan finally slams him to win. Real simple stuff.

 

 

...which mostly looked like crap too because Andre really couldn't do much that looked any good. Not to mention Hogan "finally slamming Andre" after he couldn't do it the first time and had his back worked the entire time doesn't make one lick of sense if you really think about it. People are all up in arms with "selling" and "storytelling" that "make sense", but when you simply think two secs about stuff like this, it actually make no sense whatsoever. It "works", but it doesn't look good and it's kinda stupid, really, like any "hulking up" sequence is.

 

 

Hogan persevering through the pain to finally pick up the giant in the crunch moment of a big championship match is a lot less egregious to me than kicking out of finishers at one or taking second rope head drops and not selling it two minutes later.



#7547 El-P

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:13 PM

Hogan persevering through the pain to finally pick up the giant in the crunch moment of a big championship match is a lot less egregious to me than kicking out of finishers at one or taking second rope head drops and not selling it two minutes later.

 

You won't get an argument about that from me. I'd rather re-watch Andre vs Hogan than your usual self-conscious 35 mn Mania Epictm with finisher kickouts orgy.



#7548 sek69

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 05:32 PM

 

Dave's primary job isn't to watch everything. It's to watch what's either hot or catching on. He reports on business first and foremost. He has commented on Trevor Lee and Io Shirai and modern All Japan and other stuff in a way that makes me think he watches way more than he talks about. Still, there are only so many hours in a day, and how can we ask this guy to spend even more time on wrestling than he already does?

 

Well, specific to Evolve, it's deeper than that:

 

From WON coverage, Dave's social media and audio, etc, you'd barely know the promotion existed, which is weird if just because of the WWE deal (and Gabe now being a consultant in NXT). Once, someone on Twitter asked Dave why he doesn't review Evolve shows and he gave a "reading is your friend, I did in the new issue" reply when he didn't review the latest shows, he just gave the results. Online and in the WON, he gave the attendance for the last NYC show as 150-200ish, when literally everyone else said it was about 450-600, which is a big difference. "Dave Meltzer doesn't watch Evolve" is now enough of a thing that Ethan Page joked about it with ACH on their show on FloSlam. There are a bunch of Wrestling Twitter conspiracy theories about it and I don't really buy any of them, but I get why people find it weird and want an explanation. Doesn't help that Dave doesn't reply when asked if he watches Evolve, or about other Evolve-related stuff, on top of the perception that he's not covering various issues within ROH.

 

 

 

The ROH stuff was weird, there was a time there was clearly some shit going on with people unhappy and/or leaving and he seemed to go out of his way to not mention it past the most basic "this is a thing that happened and I won't say more about it". 



#7549 Beast

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:07 AM

In Dave's Heenan bio, he twice says he managed Pat Patterson. I may be way off here, but that's not correct, right?

 

He says Heenan managed Stevens & Patterson in AWA after Heenan returned after Georgia, but Patterson was in WWF that entire time, I think.

 

And then he says Heenan listed his top 5 workers managed as Flair, Stevens, Hennig, Patterson, Bockwinkel, but when Bockwinkel passed that story was told with Bockwinkel as #4 and no Patterson.



#7550 Al

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:36 AM

Patterson did some spots for the AWA in the early '80s, last one in January of '83.



#7551 Beast

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:42 AM

Oh OK, thanks for the info.

 

So weird to think of a time when a star like Patterson could go back and forth between two major companies with no issue. But I guess this was while Vince Sr. was still overseeing the WWF?



#7552 khawk20

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:52 AM

Oh OK, thanks for the info.

 

So weird to think of a time when a star like Patterson could go back and forth between two major companies with no issue. But I guess this was while Vince Sr. was still overseeing the WWF?

 

It was more of a thing before 1984, yes. Ken Patera, for example, won the IC title in MSG and then two days later won the Missouri title, the "Steppingstone" to the NWA belt.

 

Also Ventura and Adonis were doing shots in the WWF while still in the AWA to set them up as challengers for Backlund. The pair was suspended from the AWA after a TV match in December of 1981. Adonis had his first MSG title shot on January 18th, barely a month later. 

 

So it happened, sometimes as a segue into the wrestler's next stop, other times just an agreement to somewhat share the talent (like the Patera case).

 

...and I have no recollection of Bobby managing Pat at all in the AWA. Not to say it didn't happen when Pat made his shots here and there. I just don't remember it.



#7553 hammerva

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 12:18 PM

Was I listening to the last Observer Radio correctly or did they say you can now gamble on Meltzer star ratings for the next PPV  :blink:



#7554 Seabs

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 01:07 PM

You've been able to do that for the past few in the UK. It's the most meta thing ever.

#7555 Jmare007

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 07:43 PM

Was I listening to the last Observer Radio correctly or did they say you can now gamble on Meltzer star ratings for the next PPV  :blink:

 

You've been able to do that for the past few in the UK. It's the most meta thing ever.

 

Holy shit :lol:



#7556 Loss

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 08:10 PM

Good Lord. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.



#7557 Al

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 08:24 PM

The early '80s were a weird time for interpromotional cooperation. That's when we got the Backlund/Flair matches, a lot of guys working each other's cards.

Good Lord. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


Have you heard of the Wayne Shaw scandal?

https://www.google.c...-pie-stunt/amp/

#7558 Loss

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 10:56 PM

The human experience was a nice attempt at something, but has clearly failed.



#7559 iamthedoctor

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 02:27 AM

Larry Csonka (who I know is hardly the most reliable source in the world) reported this today...

 

 

According to The Wrestling Observer Newsletter, the reason Baron Corbin lost his MITB briefcase and has been cooled off has nothing to do with John Cena or Corbin’s actions on Twitter, although his actions on Twitter didn’t win him fans with his co-workers; it’s considered bad form to go on a blocking spree of your fellow wrestlers. The WON reports that he has been cooled off due to, “an entirely different situation outside the ring that happened a few weeks ago.”

 

This means one of two things.

 

Either the WON did provide more details and Csonka isn't passing it on (possible) or more likely, Dave Meltzer is doing another one of his famous "I know the real reason something happened, and I'm going to tell you that I know, but I'm not going to actually report on the details of what I know" deals.

 

I HATE when he does that.  He's done it several times over the past couple of years, and it drives me nuts.  If you're a reporter, and you have a story, then report the damn story.  If you can't report the story for whatever reason (don't want to give a source, can't confirm the story, whatever) then DON'T SAY ANYTHING.

 

The whole topic of Baron Corbin's suddenly aborted push and speculation regarding whether or not John Cena is the reason is a very hot story right now. To me, nonsense like this report is the equivalent of a little kid dancing around chanting "I've got a secret, na-na-na-nana."

 

I wouldn't have putten the MITB contract on Corbin in the first place, Nakamura obviously should have been given that win.



#7560 C.S.

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 06:51 AM

I re-subbed to Observer for at least one month.

 

THREE obits in the latest issue: Bobby Heenan (with more to come next week), Otto Wanz, and Ruben Juarez (Northern Express in Mexico and “The Giant Killer” in the United States).

 

I think every WON reader knows how sad that is while also being something to look forward to from Meltzer. As odd/morbid as that sounds, obits are the best thing he writes.

 

That insane bit about betting on star ratings is also in the issue.

 

As weird/wacky as the stupid $10.99 price is, seeing "1 Hour and 49 minutes left in this book" on my Kindle is impressive - each issue really is the size of a small book. Even with all of the useless filler (MMA crap, show recaps that are already outdated by the time they're in the WON, etc.), there's still a ton of content.

 

BTW, any tips for sending issues of the Observer to a Kindle easily? I remember the "Send to Kindle" add-on not working in the past because of the paywall. Right now I just copy and paste the issue to a doc file and e-mail that to my Kindle. Crude but it works. Is there an easier way though?






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