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Dave Meltzer stuff


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#8061 El-P

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:46 AM

Elgin probably sexually assaulted a women. Dave called her a liar. He never talked to the women, instead he talked to Elgin and used a tumblr blog as his source.

 

Wait, I though Elgin kinda covered a sexual assault by another worker in his promotion for months. Now he's the one being directly accused ? I skipped some episodes here I guess (or I never got the story right).

 

About Meltz, I remember during the Schiavone podcast, Conrad reading some old Observer stuff that really didn't paint a nice picture of Meltz as far as talking about women goes (also in the Prichard podcast, a bit about "Terri Runnels looking like a washed up pornstar" in 98, which was like, ugh...).



#8062 Fando

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:47 AM

JFC Grimmas, Elgin was never excused by her of sexual assault. It was a guy who trained at his school.



#8063 Childs

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:51 AM

My (limited) understanding was that Elgin was accused of mishandling an assault allegation against one of his students, not of assaulting the woman himself. Is that wrong? 



#8064 El-P

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:52 AM

Ok, I'm totally confused now. :)



#8065 Fando

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:57 AM

Dave has mostly talked around the abuse allegations against Elgin (mental, not sexual) and allegations he "covered up" a sexual assault from someone at his school and focused on the comments he made about Jeff Cobb. He (and Ryan Satin) also reprinted Elgin's apology to Cobb and never contacted the woman, Moses, involved in the story who leaked the text messages.

 

At the same time, he's hinted that some of the text messages she released were edited. So last night after people on The Board were asking him about it again he posted a tumblr link that contained more text messages basically proving that they had in fact been edited or carefully selected and, whether you believe Elgin is a POS or not, there are certain parts of the story she's telling that don't square up making it very convoluted and difficult to report on ( which seems partly why Bix had problems reporting on it as well

https://twitter.com/...672578032263169 )

 

The tumblr is also completely one sided in Elgin's defense so it looks like Dave is taking sides and, to some people, basically calling her a liar. Moses also tweeted that she thinks Dave is the one behind the tumblr so it's a big fuckin mess.

 

She did an interview here if anyone wants to read her side.

http://www.pwponderi...1/speaking-out/



#8066 Grimmas

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:18 AM

My apologies, yes it wasn't Elgin. Elgin was covering for it. Doesn't really change the story.



#8067 El-P

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:38 AM

She did an interview here if anyone wants to read her side.

http://www.pwponderi...1/speaking-out/

 

Paints a terrible picture of Elgin too actually. A friend of mine used to be in that kind of relationship, so yeah, it sucks.



#8068 KawadaSmile

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:46 AM

He has quite a bad track record regaring his comments towards women.

 

I remember him saying something about Nikki Bella and how it was hard to take her seriously with her attire, or something.



#8069 Grimmas

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:10 AM

He has quite a bad track record regaring his comments towards women.

 

I remember him saying something about Nikki Bella and how it was hard to take her seriously with her attire, or something.

Yay! Slut shaming.

 

Yeah he has a history of saying shitty things about women, maybe it's time to accept that he is a shitty person and stop defending him?



#8070 ...TG

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:10 PM

Cowardly editing out a response. No good can come of my continuing this discussion.


Edited by ...TG, 12 January 2018 - 12:13 PM.


#8071 Bix

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 12:43 PM

She did an interview here if anyone wants to read her side.
http://www.pwponderi...1/speaking-out/

I dunno if they added a link to it but this is what I tweeted last night in response to the thing Mo said about an unnamed reporter (which everyone assumed to be me) in the interview:

With regards to what people have been speculating about:

First things first, when Mo initially DMed me, this was not a story about Michael Elgin, wrestler I talked to sometimes. His name came up as a local indie locker room leader type who didn't believe her and thus was siding with Sean Orleans. She didn't relay any abuse allegations against Elgin or the stuff from the texts she released later. The screenshots of texts that I saw were about him not believing Mo and asking her to leave him alone. The really inflammatory texts that got the most attention were not shared with me at any point before Mo released them publicly.

I made the mistake of not telling Mo that this kind of story could take time, especially while I also had other stories I had to do since I'm a freelancer and and needed to get paid. It was absolutely a mistake on my part, and I am incredibly sorry for it. That said, this wasn't her reaching out in the interim with me no selling her. The conversation at that point had ended with a comment she had made that felt like the last word of a particular thread of messages.

Elgin and I had agreed previously on chatting in person after his booking here in NYC. Since the story wasn't really about him at the time and I still needed to dig a bit, I made the judgement call to leave that unchanged. I didn't tell Mo because it's not like Elgin was on the record with me. Again, she had said nothing yet about Elgin abusing her. After his booking, Elgin and I talked wrestling for a few minutes and that was it.

Sometimes, someone you know gets linked to a story and you have to act as if everything is normal. It's unfortunate, but it's a reality of this job.

Meanwhile, as I attempted to report out what I could, I realized that this wasn't going to be a sufficiently reportable story that I could take to editors. I had been planning on explaining this to Mo, how it had nothing to do with whether I believed her but was just part of the process, and stupidly put it off. After Elgin tweeted about meeting me and we exchanged Wrestling Twitter platitudes (again, trying to keep everything surface status quo) Mo replied, clearly thinking the worst. I DMed her, conceded my lapse as far as explaining the potential timeline, explained the Elgin parts in much the same way I have above, and laid out what would be needed to make this something I could bring to those above me.

She told me that she never expected the story to be treated journalistically, just thinking I would call out Elgin and Orleans on Twitter.

Not sure what to think, I said I was sorry if I gave her that impression, but that wasn't what I had been looking to do. Eventualy I stopped responding when I gave up on the conversation going on a constructive direction. We messaged occasionally after that, starting with her reaching out after everything blew up a month later. I also gave her a heads up when someone else (the guy who did the story that got vetoed) would be reaching out, as he talked to me to make sure he wasn't stepping on my toes by pitching a story to somewhere that I write for (which wasn't who greenlit it).

I don't blame Mo for losing faith in me, though, because of course it looked terrible from her POV.

#8072 SPS

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:09 PM

The main thing I'm confused about is she stated the reason she has not gone to police regarding Orleans is fear of retaliation and not being believed but now that she has gone this public route, which after all the issues she's said the whole ordeal has caused her, everything she said she didn't want to happen pretty much had started or already happened. So why not go now and file with police? what is there to be lost? if she has the proof and was horribly wronged like that then why not do whatever she can to try and get the scumbag charged now?

 

As for Elgin, while he hasn't done anything criminal in terms of the law as I can't really consider her claims of him trying to guilt her into sex as a crime, it is horribly heartless and does paint him as sleazy which anyone who has heard Elgin's bragging story of urinating on a protesting girl in one of his shoots already knew that. So why was that situation not enough to get Elgin under this kind of scrutiny?

 

With Dave it seems he didn't want to get any more information than he needed to just sift over the story which now is making him look incredibly bad especially as a journalist so I can't defend him on this one but taking his past comments regarding other women in the business over the years isn't a really accurate or concrete way to judge him as a person.

 

Finally for Bix I can't blame him for wanting to take the journalistic approach with this whole situation as it's easy as we see with Dave to not only make incorrect judgement or assessments without researching and backing them up but also cause harm to people who are vulnerable and depending on being able to tell their side of the truth. Also Bix was very open and honest about how he felt his lack of clear communication caused some issues from her point of view while also trying to be fair to all involved which is difficult but the right thing to do.

 

Really my whole take away from this is how can anyone possibly get any sort of fair outcome and consequences from this whole complex situation? Can public opinion take the place of legal system without being abused or stripping people of their rights? I really am at a loss to what can be done when it's one sides word against another and the accusations fall into everyone's own personal moral beliefs and interpretation of what is lawful or acceptable. How can you remedy it all?



#8073 Johnny Sorrow

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:36 AM

I'm loving this outpouring on Twitter and elsewhere,oh wait, here, of "journalists " apologizing for basically not being actual fucking journalists.

Gentlemen of the press.

Shit, Matt Brock has more credibility.

#8074 Bix

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:03 AM

I'm loving this outpouring on Twitter and elsewhere,oh wait, here, of "journalists " apologizing for basically not being actual fucking journalists.

Gentlemen of the press.

Shit, Matt Brock has more credibility.

What exactly are you taking exception to?

#8075 dawho5

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:19 AM

Seems to me Bix was admitting to making a mistake that may have led to the whole thing being blown out of proportion.  As somebody who is responsible for the way things other people have to deal with happen, I get that.  Sometimes you don't communicate things right and it all goes to Hell faster than you think it will.  And it's not necessarily your fault, but you feel responsible because the right information to the right party may have made things better.

 

Don't feel too bad about it Bix.  Mistakes happen and I'm guessing that this was going to get ugly regardless of what you did.  If this woman would have gone to the police right away it would have gotten ugly.  Allegations like this involving wrestling are only going to get more and more heated given the way women have been treated in the business and how nothing has ever really been done about it.  And yeah, public opinion is going to be really polarizing.  But if the victim doesn't get the law involved there is no way anything actually happens outside of people yelling at each other on message boards.



#8076 Fando

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 07:42 AM

The main thing I'm confused about is she stated the reason she has not gone to police regarding Orleans is fear of retaliation and not being believed but now that she has gone this public route, which after all the issues she's said the whole ordeal has caused her, everything she said she didn't want to happen pretty much had started or already happened. So why not go now and file with police? what is there to be lost? if she has the proof and was horribly wronged like that then why not do whatever she can to try and get the scumbag charged now?

 

 

Twitter justice works much faster than the courts and no one has to do any critical thinking.



#8077 Victator

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:17 PM

Meltz is in the wrong here. Even if the texts were doctored or cherry picked (I think they were) as a journalist he was obligated to speak to her if he was going to cover the story. 

 

Can public opinion take the place of legal system without being abused or stripping people of their rights? 

 

No it cannot. 



#8078 sek69

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:23 PM

I mean, it's pretty difficult for a woman to proceed with a sexual assult case in the best of circumstances (he said she said stuff, statute of limitations, willingness of law enforcement to follow up) and then add the messed up world of wrestling I can see why she would not want to go through the process. 



#8079 El-P

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:28 PM

I mean, it's pretty difficult for a woman to proceed with a sexual assult case in the best of circumstances (he said she said stuff, statute of limitations, willingness of law enforcement to follow up) and then add the messed up world of wrestling I can see why she would not want to go through the process. 

 

This. It's never, ever, easy to go to the police in the first place. Add in the social pressure, the shitty working 'da business' environement. Doesn't help. So, no blame on her at all.



#8080 Victator

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 08:01 PM

Well I can put blame on her wanting to form a lynch mob mentality on anyone booking Elgin. That her focus is almost entirely on Elgin and not Orleans raises a lot of questions. 

But that does not absolve Meltzer of his  journalistic responsibility. He should have interviewed her the second he decided to cover the story. 






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