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cad

Member Since 08 Jun 2015
Offline Last Active Jul 26 2017 11:48 PM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: La Fiera vs Kahoz (CMLL 7/9/1996)

26 July 2017 - 11:36 PM

I've never found a way to accept how Fiera changed after returning to the tecnico side in '93. He spent 1992 fouling and chainwhipping the good guys, and then all of a sudden that violent side just disappeared. You'd think he could at least put the fear of death in his old rudo buddies when making his comebacks against them, but it didn't really happen that way. This is decisively NOT a match that challenges that perception of him, but what it does do is show how effective his approach to working tecnico could be.

 

He spent most of the first two falls selling. Some of it was a bit hammy, like when he tried to jog it off and collapsed, but it was clear that Fiera was in serious trouble so in the end it worked. Well, that in conjunction with the blood. When you spill so much blood that you're wiping it out of your eyes between falls, that goes a long way towards making it look like it's going to be a hell of a time trying to survive. Kahoz has always been one of my picks for most generic wrestler--and that's with his mask, here he didn't even have that--but he really gave it to Fiera here. He started off a bit methodical and got more vicious the longer the match went on and the closer Fiera came to the end. He even got some good sneers in on the ringside fans. Maybe losing the mask actually helped. Having one of the great bumpers taking his stuff made it all the better.

 

There was a typically CMLL-ish bit of controversy when, after Fiera tied the match with his spinkick and his still beautiful frogsplash, he collapsed in the corner and the doctor came over to see if the bloodloss was too much for him to be able to continue. Kahoz was ready to jump right back on him, but the referee held him back while the doctor inspected the cut, and in the end the doc just wiped the blood off and gave them the okay to keep going. If I were Kahoz I'd have thrown a fit over that, and sure enough in short order he was busted open too. Things were going great, with Fiera getting him right in the head with a tope and Kahoz bumping big off it, but not long after that came the finish. I really think that's what kept this from being a genuinely great match. It was a bit too soon, so it didn't feel like they'd really given all they had to give, but more than that it was just a terrible finish. Picking the guy up at two and then immediately getting pinned is always awful. I'm sure it was clever the first time someone did it, but every time since then it's just been a face saving copout. But most of all I just can't buy Fiera needing mercy to beat a guy like Kahoz. Fiera was a better wrestler, plain and simple. Hell, go back four years and he'd have pinned the man with one foot. Even with the beating, the selling, and the blood, Kahoz actually winning could never happen. There's no way Fiera had to steal one like that. Kahoz did dick all after this, so it's not like he needed the protecting, and he even had an out with the way the doctor handled things between falls.

 

This was still a hell of a job by both guys. Fiera's one of my favorites, but I'd never have thought he could have a match this good this late in his career against an opponent the caliber of Kahoz. And they did all this at Arena Coliseo, not exactly known for its brutal wager matches by this point in time. I seriously can't think of a better Arena Coliseo apuestas match, although I'm sure I'm forgetting something.


In Topic: Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

18 July 2017 - 07:06 AM

That looks like a good call. It's kind of hard to tell with the VQ being so different for the Youtube uploads of the two matches, but it seems like the same crowd as for Hijo del Santo, Chamaco Valaguez and Cachorro Mendoza vs Fuerza Guerrera, Talisman and Jerry Estrada, which is also purported to have taken place on the March 9 event. The six man from March 2 seemed to set up a title match, too. With the scarcity of video from that era I'd guess that it likely came from a show that we have video of.

 

Then again I have no idea how reliable the sources are for 1984 lineups. I don't think Satanico vs Lizmark was listed for that date until earlier this year.


In Topic: Dave Meltzer stuff

07 July 2017 - 10:46 AM

 

Well, that could just mean he sucked in Japan. With how much he idolized Choshu, I doubt he went over there and halfassed it.

 

I remember that in his actual Observers from the nineties Meltzer would frequently write things like "Negro Casas, who is already said to be the best worker in the history of Mexico..." from when Casas was as young as his early thirties. I seem to remember him being particularly impressed with Casas' performance at this show (and if the attendance details are correct then the entire crowd went home happy that night). It's been a while, though, so I might not be remembering right. From most 1980s footage of Casas that's made its way online, he looks like he did start emphasizing his character much more in the nineties, and maybe the sheet community interpreted that as Casas putting in less work.

 

Besides Kdawg (who never worked in the same major promotion as Casas) who are Meltzer's Mexican sources? I think Steve Sims still liked his nineties work.

 

This might be true but I have a feeling the simpler explanation is that Meltzer (and his contemporaries) have just not seen much of 90s CMLL Negro Casas and might be basing the assessment on a few Japanese matches.

 

Yeah, I was just spitballing there. Casas still had a high workrate in the nineties, so it's not like he turned into Sangre Chicana or anything. He probably wasn't the physical phenom he was in the decade prior, just because now the measuring stick was guys like Misterio and Psicosis.

 

If I had to guess the most likely explanation would be Meltzer remembering how dull the CMLL was for a large part of the decade and lumping Casas in with all that, plus I imagine at the time Konnan was always explaining to him that the promotion and its wrestlers were stuck in the past. It's just weird because I don't ever remember him being negative about Casas in his newsletters from the time he's now talking about.


In Topic: Dave Meltzer stuff

06 July 2017 - 06:47 AM

Well, that could just mean he sucked in Japan. With how much he idolized Choshu, I doubt he went over there and halfassed it.

 

I remember that in his actual Observers from the nineties Meltzer would frequently write things like "Negro Casas, who is already said to be the best worker in the history of Mexico..." from when Casas was as young as his early thirties. I seem to remember him being particularly impressed with Casas' performance at this show (and if the attendance details are correct then the entire crowd went home happy that night). It's been a while, though, so I might not be remembering right. From most 1980s footage of Casas that's made its way online, he looks like he did start emphasizing his character much more in the nineties, and maybe the sheet community interpreted that as Casas putting in less work.

 

Besides Kdawg (who never worked in the same major promotion as Casas) who are Meltzer's Mexican sources? I think Steve Sims still liked his nineties work.


In Topic: Quarterly Feel Good Poll June 2017

15 June 2017 - 08:43 AM

  • Current favorite wrestler to watch: My opinion of Fuerza Guerrera has gone up I think every match I've seen from him in the past year or thereabouts
  • Last fun match you saw: Random six man in which Jerry Estrada and Rey Misterio Sr. fought, good rivalry even if the one straight up match that I've seen wasn't good.
  • Wrestler you want to see more of: Americo Rocca, Gran Cochisse, I'm not exactly holding my breath though
  • Last live show attended (if applicable/different from last time you answered): Haven't been to a show in over five years. All I remember from my last one is one of my friends shouting violent advice to the wrestler he wanted to win. I can vividly recall "reach into his chest and slowly crush his heart", "eat his tongue" and "try to constrict his breathing", and the rest appear to be lost to history.
  • Match you're most looking forward to watching: I'm trying to trade with this guy who has some stuff that looks good, but he responds to emails about every third day so my progress has been pretty sluggish. Get with it, guy.
  • Last fun interview/promo you saw: It's been so long since I went on a Youtube kick of wrestling promos, what is wrong with me, have I changed?
  • Last interesting thing you read about wrestling: Steve Sims saying (in 1992) that Atlantis was a guy who wrestled to the level of his opponent. I immediately thought "no, no, that's not right" and then spent a long time trying to think of solid, inarguable counterexamples. I still don't 100% agree but I can't say it didn't change how I look at Atlantis a bit.
  • Last worthwhile podcast you listened to: I can't do podcasts, partly for the same reasons I avoid listening to other people's conversations on the train. Also if I try to multitask the podcast becomes background noise, and if I try to focus on just the podcast my eyes become bored, find something to look at, and reduce the podcast to background noise.
  • Most fun you've had watching wrestling lately: I don't know, I haven't been stringently counting my funs recently
  • Favorite recent post on this board: The one thing from this site that stuck with me the most was that person who was upset about his .gifs being stolen. That's interesting to me, the culture of fans exactly reproducing stuff that other fans have made available, and the protectiveness of the original uploaders who sort of view it as their own.
  • Favorite thing about the wrestling landscape in the past three months (if you live in the past, then go with your past three months of time-traveling): Hahaha, probably the Alvarados beating the hell out of Ultimo Guerrero's car. Wrestling still has some badass left in it.