rzombie1988 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Flair in 05 was post Evolution. That was from early on in his "American Onita" run which I liked.Flair had that fun Raw match with Lawler on 2004 and was in some fun 6-man's. Can't be too much more detailed than that because it was 8 years ago and alot of 6-man's were great but are hard to distinguish based off of memory alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'd be interested in opinions on the white meat babyface triple threat match: Tito Santana v Rick Martel v Ricky Steamboat ...now that more people have had a chance to watch some of Martel's best matches on the AWA set (though I think there's still some decent leftovers probably worth seeing not on the set). I could go back and forth on ranking these guys daily. The main thing that's happened is that I no longer consider Flair/Steamboat to be some sort of untouchable classic series and would probably take both Santana/Valentine and Martel/Bockwinkel over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Actually comping those three series might be more interesting than comping those particular guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Flair teamed with Arn regularly in 1990, feuding with Doom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Actually comping those three series might be more interesting than comping those particular guys... All three have been done, although Santana-Valentine might not be out there yet. I know a super Santana geek was putting it together several months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Here's one that occurred to me watching AWA earlier: Greg Gagne vs. RVD In my mind, these are both guys who had a unique way of doing things, who plenty of people hate on whether rightly or wrongly. Also ... Vader vs. Jerry Blackwell from a few pages before on this -- Blackwell almost seems like a "different kind of fat" to me. Know what I mean by that? I mean Vader somehow looks like he should be able to do some of the shit he does. Blackwell in no way looks like he should be able to jump, let alone do some of the shit he does. I'm saying this after one match. He's closer to like a Giant Haystacks build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Here's one that occurred to me watching AWA earlier: Greg Gagne vs. RVD In my mind, these are both guys who had a unique way of doing things, who plenty of people hate on whether rightly or wrongly. There is concept and there is execution. I don't see how you could begin to compare Gagne and RVD when it comes to concept. Let me put it this way, if Gagne was the most awkward wrestler in the world (which he's not) and RVD the smoothest, then what I've seen out of Gagne's basic understanding of how to work a coherent, meaningful match still utterly eclipses RVD. EDIT: Which isn't to say I COMPLETELY love CHEATING FACE Greg Gagne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Here's one that occurred to me watching AWA earlier: Greg Gagne vs. RVD In my mind, these are both guys who had a unique way of doing things, who plenty of people hate on whether rightly or wrongly. There is concept and there is execution. I don't see how you could begin to compare Gagne and RVD when it comes to concept. Let me put it this way, if Gagne was the most awkward wrestler in the world (which he's not) and RVD the smoothest, then what I've seen out of Gagne's basic understanding of how to work a coherent, meaningful match still utterly eclipses RVD. EDIT: Which isn't to say I COMPLETELY love CHEATING FACE Greg Gagne. Remember though. Greg Gagne really only "cheated" when he was facing a bad guy who deserved a little taste of his own medicine. I'm sure if we watched all the TV during the time of the AWA set, it'd be full of the bad guys cutting promos on the good guys and fucking them over in various other matches besides the big ones on the set. By the time the matches went down, the good guys were justified to throw the bad guys tactics back in their faces, and that's why the crowds went nuts. It's not as if the High Flyers cheated when they'd do a studio match against two job guys, I'd imagine. Edit: The AWA Set: So Fucking Great It's Invading Threads Everywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 Here's one that occurred to me watching AWA earlier: Greg Gagne vs. RVD In my mind, these are both guys who had a unique way of doing things, who plenty of people hate on whether rightly or wrongly. There is concept and there is execution. I don't see how you could begin to compare Gagne and RVD when it comes to concept. Let me put it this way, if Gagne was the most awkward wrestler in the world (which he's not) and RVD the smoothest, then what I've seen out of Gagne's basic understanding of how to work a coherent, meaningful match still utterly eclipses RVD. EDIT: Which isn't to say I COMPLETELY love CHEATING FACE Greg Gagne. Remember though. Greg Gagne really only "cheated" when he was facing a bad guy who deserved a little taste of his own medicine. I'm sure if we watched all the TV during the time of the AWA set, it'd be full of the bad guys cutting promos on the good guys and fucking them over in various other matches besides the big ones on the set. By the time the matches went down, the good guys were justified to throw the bad guys tactics back in their faces, and that's why the crowds went nuts. It's not as if the High Flyers cheated when they'd do a studio match against two job guys, I'd imagine. Edit: The AWA Set: So Fucking Great It's Invading Threads Everywhere! Which would be every heel in the AWA and not every face did it, but Greg always did. The jerk. Of course he's a car salesman now. Snake oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Flair might be a bit above in the energy and manic bumping, but Bock is pretty good at that too. Flair wins on "ACTION" but Bock holds up way better than his reputation would say. I think it might be worth comparing Bock's touring champ "ACTION" matches. In putting together the Mid-South set we got to watch a bunch of Bock touring champ "surviving" a challenge keeping it moving matches from Houston. There is about a 15 minute Brody match that felt like an hour which didn't make the set. I'm not a big fan of th Brody v Flair broadway, but Flair does a much better job of keeping the match going, the Bock v Brody match is a quarter of the length but feels like twice it. We did put the JYD and Dusty matches on the Mid-South set. Part of me wishes we had put on the Brody one, so people could see how much more JYD brings to the table. We also have a TV studio match between touring champ Bock and Mike Graham from Blanchard's fed, which I don't think is anywhere near as effective as either the Tv studio touring champ Flair v Graham or the Tv studio touring champ Dory v Graham matches we have. I like Bockwinkle alot, and not really the biggest fan of the touring champ survivor type matches (Bock is clearly a better touring champ for what Memphis demands than either Flair or Dory do...and that maybe should be weighed higher)...but it's simply not one that I think Bock is very good at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I fully admit I need to see a lot more of Bock outside of AWA and Memphis. That's mainly what I've seen. I haven't exactly been rushing towards the Brody match but I need to see it at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I think it might be worth comparing Bock's touring champ "ACTION" matches. In putting together the Mid-South set we got to watch a bunch of Bock touring champ "surviving" a challenge keeping it moving matches from Houston. There is about a 15 minute Brody match that felt like an hour which didn't make the set. I'm not a big fan of th Brody v Flair broadway, but Flair does a much better job of keeping the match going, the Bock v Brody match is a quarter of the length but feels like twice it. That Brody-Bock is such a bad match that it's not even funny. It's even funnier due to the Corny-Dave commentary track. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 It's worth noting that Bock hates Brody to the point where he has said - almost in these words - that he deserved what he got. We also have a studio match from Stampede with Bock v. Dr D who was a terrible in ring wrestler and it's quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Their is also a nice Bock vs. Manny Fernandez bout from Blanchard's fed. Actually Bix did a nice comp of Bock on tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 El Dandy or Eddie Guerrero? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlk23 Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Someone make one of these for wrestling. http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/elo.cgi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 El Dandy or Eddie Guerrero? Eddie easily. Not a fan of Mexico Lucha. Love the Guerrero/Barr vs ??? Match from his first dvd though. Like a lot of Black Tiger II stuff. Malenko/Guerrero from ECW is good but overrated. Into WCW he has some straight awesome matches: vs. Ohtani @ Starrcade '95, vs. Jericho @ Superbrawl '97, Fall Brawl '97(there was another one somewhere), Of course vs. Mysterio @ Havoc '97(one of the best matches of all time. Loved it live too). Onto WWE you have the RVD ladder match from Raw '02, the Edge No DQ match, Smackdown '02 & vs. Edge @ Unforgiven '02(was there live so it holds a special place). "Smackdown Six" matches are all awesome. Especially vs. Benoit @ Armageddon '02. Moving along you have vs. Brock @ No Way Out '04(Top ten match of that decade). Lots of great Mysterio matches on TV & PPV including the WWE Title match from Smackdown, April '04. And towards the end vs. Batista @ No Mercy '05(is Eddie foe or friend storyline, not newbbut well done). Thought they could have really produced a classic @ Survivor Series with a sorta double turn, where Eddie is actually Batista's friend but Batista's paranoia leads to his heel turn to destroy Eddie(like he did to Rey in '09). Damn I miss Eddy . Did he ever have a TV match with Finlay or Regal?? Who's better: Owen Hart or Davey Boy Smith? (Probably been done if so, move on) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Guerrero is really overrated. He had some good runs, but nothing that warranted his top 10 worker status circa '05/'06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Having watched some stuff for the anniversary of his death, I could not disagree more. He was other-wordly in 2005, and not far off at any other point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Guerrero is really overrated. He had some good runs, but nothing that warranted his top 10 worker status circa '05/'06. I should hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I meant top ten all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB8 Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Eddie's my favourite wrestler ever and even I wouldn't have him above Dandy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 Guerrero is really overrated. He had some good runs, but nothing that warranted his top 10 worker status circa '05/'06. I agree with this. Watching a great deal of his 90s stuff, he comes across as a guy who was technically really good, but didn't really know how to work a crowd. His heel turn in 1997 was tremendous and is an obvious exception, but I think even that is a little bit overrated. I do remember loving his WWE run at the end of his life, but I actually think Sean Waltman had a better 90s than him, much less guys like Liger, Benoit, Otani and even Ultimo Dragon and El Samurai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 In 1995 in WCW he was already a fantastic worker to me. Just went through this period and his matches with Benoit were awesome. He also had a very nice match with Big Bubba. To me he was a fine babyface at this time. It's not like he was Tim Horner. Some of his heel stuff was awesome, some was a bit goofy. His most overrated stuff consists of the Dean Malenko matches, and I blame Malenko for being a jerk-off, work-in-a-vacuum worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedEx227 Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 I would argue his WWE run 2004-2006 is far better than his work in the 90s when he was building the reputation as one of the best around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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