Ridiculous quotes from WO.com columnists

[kjh]

Jereme Warneck (WO.com's boxing correspondent) bashes the WWE Smackdown vs Raw 2008 video game in relation to its response to the Benoit tragedy and subsequent steroid scandal.

 

His follow up piece.

 

"Intergender matches have been a part of wrestling games for decades, but in light of recent circumstances the choice to continue to include them in this year's version of the game was tacky at best."

 

Remember it only becomes tacky when the wife ends up murdered instead of just being nicely bruised and battered and having to call the cops to protect themselves!

[Jingus]

Yeah, he's a nervous nellie all hopped up on sweet, sweeeet moral indignation. Bitching about signs in the crowd with death-related catchphrases is one hell of a stretch.

 

I don't understand the people like this guy who act like the entire wrestling world changed forever after Benoitgate. I mean, come on, you didn't know that this was possible? You thought that wrestlers were magically exempt from being able to murder people? Never heard the old Jimmy Snuka stories? Your knowledge of Bruiser Brody's career stop at 1987? Benoit killing his wife and kid is probably the most disgusting single action taken by a pro wrestler, but it's not so far outside of established precedence that such a thing was unthinkable. To have believed otherwise is just damned naive.

[Al]

What the fuck? Seriously guys, read the whole article. It's been a long time since I've seen that level of drivel. It's a video game review, not a term paper. I don't know if anyone here is involved in the video game industry, but it would seem that the stringent time demands would make it nearly impossible to make a full scale overhaul of a video game in a matter of months to please the 1% of the audience that really cares about such things.

 

Honestly, if these kind of things concern you in wrestling, then stop watching. The nature of the entertainment dictates that it will be this way.

[Tim Evans]

Why does the Observer has a Boxing guy? Does Meltzer now thing Boxing=Wrestling?

[Dan]

Why does the Observer has a Boxing guy? Does Meltzer now thing Boxing=Wrestling?

Heyman and Gabe told him it was, so yes. It's not that far of a stretch actually. He already considers MMA to be pro wres. And punching is a part of MMA. Kicking is in MMA, so maybe soccer is next.

[Resident Evil]

I consider MMA wrestling. Certainly, it's not the exact same but how is it so different? MMA is just a real version of professional wrestling. Professional wrestling is the exhibition.

[Guest *FH*]

I consider MMA wrestling. Certainly, it's not the exact same but how is it so different? MMA is just a real version of professional wrestling. Professional wrestling is the exhibition.

When was the last 3 count pinfall you saw in mma?

[tomk]

"Law and Order" is police work, just in it's exhibition form?

[Loss]

That's like saying cartoons and everyday life are just alike, except one is drawn and the other is not.

[MikeCampbell]

I sort of get what RE is trying to say, although Loss, tomk, and FH all have good counterpoints. You certainly can't limit *all* pro wrestling to being an exhibition form of MMA, but stuff like UWFi could certainly fit that bill.

[S.L.L.]

MMA is just a real version of professional wrestling. Professional wrestling is the exhibition.

Prove it.

 

Seriously. I want to hear you back up this claim. Everybody says it, everybody takes it for granted as being true, nobody ever stops to consider what it means. Nobody ever stops to consider if it's really a valid claim. I'm opening the floor to you, Mr. Evil nee Pegasus. Prove it.

[S.L.L.]

I sort of get what RE is trying to say, although Loss, tomk, and FH all have good counterpoints. You certainly can't limit *all* pro wrestling to being an exhibition form of MMA, but stuff like UWFi could certainly fit that bill.

Well, technically, it's the other way around. MMA was the next step in the evolution of worked shoot wrestling. It's that pesky historical connection between the two that almost justifies calling them the same thing, but then you just look at one next to the other and realize they aren't.

[Guest *FH*]

I look forward to the first superplex in UFC. Maybe a flying rana from the top of the cage.

[Resident Evil]

"Law and Order" is police work, just in it's exhibition form?

Well, I don't watch "Law and Order" but I assume it's a police show. So if that's true than yes, your statement is correct though it's not an exact parallel to wrestling compared to MMA. Law and Order to Police Work is much further apart than Wrestling is to MMA. Much further which I believe is partly the point of your statement. To show a somewhat "similar" comparison to a drastic difference of police work to TV Show and make the person reading it think the point I made is offbase. However, it's not that simple.

 

When was the last 3 count pinfall you saw in mma?

This is an example of how they're similar actually. The 3 count is way different than a 1 count in amateur wrestling. The main reason there is a 3 count in professional wrestling is to create excitement, intrigue and possiblities etc that you can't do with a 1 count. MMA has also done something similar in the past. You have seen matches where fighters have to stand up after being up on the ground for too or even how they take breaks at the end of a round. The reasons for this is that it presumably makes a match more exciting. The one thing it doesn't tell me is that who TRULY is the best fighter. They are sacrificing what is supposed to be the main point of MMA (who is the best fighter?) for entertainment value. The same thing wrestling does with a 3 count. They are using exhibition techniqes to draw people in just like wrestling does.

 

That's like saying cartoons and everyday life are just alike, except one is drawn and the other is not

No, once again it's not that simple and the compairson isn't accurate.

 

I look forward to the first superplex in UFC. Maybe a flying rana from the top of the cage

And I as a professional wrestling look forward to seeing powerbombs, triangle chokes, armbars, takedowns, suplexes, kicks and so on.

 

Prove it.

 

Seriously. I want to hear you back up this claim. Everybody says it, everybody takes it for granted as being true, nobody ever stops to consider what it means. Nobody ever stops to consider if it's really a valid claim. I'm opening the floor to you, Mr. Evil nee Pegasus. Prove it.

Like I said either, they both alter their matches to draw people in. MMA wil also book matches if it draws in the crowd.

 

They both use bad guys and good guys. Personalities to draw people in moreso than most other sports.

 

The goal of the participants is the same. To become the best and become champion. Even in the exhibition world, this is top priority and achievable to a degree.l

 

The goal of the organizations are the same. To make money by selling the product to the crowd.

 

They both use highly motivated, tough, well conditioned. similar mindset and competitive individuals.

 

They both get hurt. They are both violent activities which appeal to a lot of the same emotions in the viewer. This is partly where a TV comparison falls apart. Pro Wrestling is not totally fake.

 

They have a storied history together

 

MMA is often seen as the real version of professional wrestling by people. It is what would happen to professional wrestling if it did decide to go legit someday.

 

 

Professional wrestling became the way it is partly due to the preformers not believing that real professional wrestling would be exciting enough for the fans. It has morphed into different formats since than. There is a big difference between Memhis, Pancrase and UWFI for example. But the links and roots - I assume people here know them -- with MMA and wrestling in Japan or even other places are just too strong for me to ignore.

 

But in conclusion. Wrestling is in essence an anything goes contest where you can pretty much do anything you want comat style. Even punching which is supposed to be illegal is commonly forgotten about. So you have an activity that allows you do what you want -- kicking/punching/wrestling/etc, has contact harsh enough to draw in millions of people, is displaying a common goal of combatants wanting to be the best/have the championship belt, uses the advantage of exhibiton/booking to draw people in to make money, has bad/good guys personalities, ring announcers, ring music, conditoned/determined preformers and so. The other activitity that has the exact same thing.

 

The question becomes, "What would happen to professional wrestling if it left its fake roots and became legit?" It would become MMA. Therefore, MMA is professional wrestling except one has the difference of one being a total exhibition while the other is the real thing who only partially uses exhibition which I believe is what my original statement was.

 

 

 

I sense that after some people had a backlash of "comical, comedy" wrestling where people decided to gravitate towards more legit stuff like Japan that there is now somewhat of anti backlash to that by some people. People are thinking now that making wrestling look too real is counter productive to their version of what wrestling should be. I'm not saying that's right or wrong. Just an observation. Hence, some of the anti MMA is the real version of pro wrestling backlash. But when you're looking at UWFI, RINGS, Pancrase if you consider it professional wrestling and All Japan than the differences are really not that different. Even other wrestling leagues. They're all on the same ladder. It's just that they're on different rungs.

[Dan]

Pro wres and MMA have three things in common, that I see. They both feature men in their underwear grappling with each other. They both are about making money. And they both use personalties. And that's about it.

 

Like I said either, they both alter their matches to draw people in. MMA wil also book matches if it draws in the crowd.

 

They both use bad guys and good guys. Personalities to draw people in moreso than most other sports.

 

The goal of the participants is the same. To become the best and become champion. Even in the exhibition world, this is top priority and achievable to a degree.l

 

The goal of the organizations are the same. To make money by selling the product to the crowd.

 

They both use highly motivated, tough, well conditioned. similar mindset and competitive individuals.

 

They have a storied history together

So boxing is pro wres, like Meltzer seems to be thinking? A De La Hoya fight has all those things. Other sports too. Baseball and football aren't the same thing because they both throw balls at each other and play on a field.

 

They both get hurt. They are both violent activities which appeal to a lot of the same emotions in the viewer. This is partly where a TV comparison falls apart. Pro Wrestling is not totally fake.

Except if in pro wres if you hurt your opponent, you're doing something wrong. In mixed mar you're supposed to, or at least incapacitate them. Fairly big difference.

[Loss]

You can compare Dana White to Vince McMahon. You can not compare fighters to pro wrestlers. They have absolutely nothing in common.

[S.L.L.]

I'm glad Resident Evil responded to my post. Nobody who claims that wrestling is MMA and vice versa ever seems to explain how they came to that conclusion, and I'm glad he outlined all his reasons, because it really does give a great illustration of how tenuous the comparisons are and how backwards and flawed the logic used to make the conclusions are. I don't know if he'll realize it, but there you go.

 

Anyway, if he's right, I'd like to take this time to prove that "The Wizard of Oz" is pro wrestling.

 

Like I said either, they both alter their matches to draw people in. MMA wil also book matches if it draws in the crowd.

The makers of The Wizard of Oz tried to draw a paying crowd. A number of alterations were made to the plot of the book to help draw the crowd.

 

They both use bad guys and good guys. Personalities to draw people in moreso than most other sports.

The Wizard of Oz used good guys and bad guys, moreso than other sports.

 

The goal of the participants is the same. To become the best and become champion. Even in the exhibition world, this is top priority and achievable to a degree.l

Everyone wants to be the best. Dorothy's friends were all about self improvement. And Dorothy and the Wicked Witch kept feuding over those coveted Ruby Slippers. Not a title, strictly speaking, but then the UWF didn't have titles, and if you consider MMA to be pro wrestling, you would have to consider the UWF to be pro wrestling.

 

The goal of the organizations are the same. To make money by selling the product to the crowd.

Same goal that The Wizard of Oz had. And, you know, every business ever.

 

They both use highly motivated, tough, well conditioned. similar mindset and competitive individuals.

I don't know what kind of athletes the cast and crew of The Wizard of Oz were. They probably don't compare favorably to wrestlers or mixed martial artists. That said, all very motivated people, competitive, similar mindset.

 

They both get hurt. They are both violent activities which appeal to a lot of the same emotions in the viewer. This is partly where a TV comparison falls apart. Pro Wrestling is not totally fake.

As has been noted, wrestlers aren't supposed to get hurt. Neither were Buddy Ebsen or Margaret Hamilton, but it happened on the set of The Wizard of Oz.

 

They have a storied history together

 

MMA is often seen as the real version of professional wrestling by people. It is what would happen to professional wrestling if it did decide to go legit someday.

 

 

Professional wrestling became the way it is partly due to the preformers not believing that real professional wrestling would be exciting enough for the fans. It has morphed into different formats since than. There is a big difference between Memhis, Pancrase and UWFI for example. But the links and roots - I assume people here know them -- with MMA and wrestling in Japan or even other places are just too strong for me to ignore.

Things can have common roots without being the same thing.

 

But in conclusion. Wrestling is in essence an anything goes contest where you can pretty much do anything you want comat style. Even punching which is supposed to be illegal is commonly forgotten about. So you have an activity that allows you do what you want -- kicking/punching/wrestling/etc, has contact harsh enough to draw in millions of people, is displaying a common goal of combatants wanting to be the best/have the championship belt, uses the advantage of exhibiton/booking to draw people in to make money, has bad/good guys personalities, ring announcers, ring music, conditoned/determined preformers and so. The other activitity that has the exact same thing.

 

The question becomes, "What would happen to professional wrestling if it left its fake roots and became legit?" It would become MMA. Therefore, MMA is professional wrestling except one has the difference of one being a total exhibition while the other is the real thing who only partially uses exhibition which I believe is what my original statement was.

That's a pretty big difference. If wrestling went legit, it would become MMA. That doesn't mean it would still be wrestling. MMA is a game, and as with any game, it's defined by it's rules. It's rules, as you may or may not have noticed, are very different than pro wrestling's "rules". It's necessary for me to throw those quotation marks in there because pro wrestling is not a game, and therefore is not defined by rules. It's a genre of fiction. It belongs to an entirely different categorization of stuff. Like Law & Order and actual police work. Or MMA and The Wizard of Oz. Sure you can compare the two. There may even be real, valid comparisons, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

[goodhelmet]

That was fucking awesome.

[Jingus]

That picture by itself is fucking awesome. Admit it SLL, you chose the enitre Frank L. Baum theme just to have a legit reason to use it.

[Johnny Sorrow]

As someone who read every one of the Oz books, let me just say bravo.

[Marty]

They both use highly motivated, tough, well conditioned. similar mindset and competitive individuals.

I don't know what kind of athletes the cast and crew of The Wizard of Oz were. They probably don't compare favorably to wrestlers or mixed martial artists. That said, all very motivated people, competitive, similar mindset.

I don't know, S.L.L. I heard a rumour that those flying monkeys owned and operated by the Wicked Witch of the West were a HUGE influence on Rey Mysterio Jr.'s career.

 

Also...look! A heel stable!

[Guest *FH*]

They both use bad guys and good guys. Personalities to draw people in moreso than most other sports.

 

The goal of the participants is the same. To become the best and become champion. Even in the exhibition world, this is top priority and achievable to a degree.l

 

The goal of the organizations are the same. To make money by selling the product to the crowd.

 

They both use highly motivated, tough, well conditioned. similar mindset and competitive individuals.

You could say this about the majority of pro sports in America now, though. In his book "Wrestling Babylon," Irv Muchnick notes that, in our media age, real sports have become more like pro wrestling, with focus on personalities, hype, promos, scantily-clad women, etc.

 

This is why the "Pure Sports Build~!" argument is ridiculous. Pro wrestling is SUPPOSED to be outlandish...that's what sells. It works so well that other sports have co-opted wrestling's methods. Fans who think pro wrestling should be booked more like a real sport don't watch much real sports, I guess. Not to mention that, without its colorful and outlandish aspects, wrestling is just boring fake fighting. Nobody outside of small children and retards thinks wrestling is real anymore, so staging a bland fake fight as if it's a real sport is incredibly stupid when everyone knows you can change the channel and watch a real fight elsewhere.

 

SLL already said it very well. These arguments are incredibly tenuous and can easily be twisted to apply to almost anything.

[Loss]

I do think WWE could do All Access-type hype shows that would be great for their PPV buys.

 

I really think that's all there is for wrestling to learn from MMA.

[S.L.L.]

That picture by itself is fucking awesome. Admit it SLL, you chose the enitre Frank L. Baum theme just to have a legit reason to use it.

 

Believe it or not, I actually picked the subject first and then got to the "shared history" line and had the light bulb go off in my head. It was actually the injuries line that made me think of Margaret Hamilton catching fire in a stunt gone wrong, and I went with "The Wizard of Oz" from that.

 

The Wizard of Oz also featured several actors changing gimmicks to gain the greater interest of crowd (well, Hamilton was pretty over already as Miss Gulch, but I guess they wanted something more sports entertainmenty). Judy Garland's singing obviously inspired the pop idol aspect of 70's and 80's joshi, the Munchkins were a major inspiration for midget wrestling, the Cowardly Lion was both one of the first cowardly heels AND did one of the first face turns (as would the Wicked Witch's guards and the Wizard himself), the movie's climax is one of the earliest lucha de apuestas matches (Dorothy's slippers vs. the Witch's broom), the whole "click your heels together" thing is an early Russo-style swerve, and the ending is one of the earliest nostalgia shows (remember when the Wizard was a traveling fortune teller? Ah, the good old days of pure sports build).

[Guest *FH*]

Could it be that the urban legend about the munchkin who hung himself inspired wrestling's most famous and talented munchkin to do himself in the same way???