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El-P
Wrestling needs to be done with owners, GM and commisioners storylines, like, yesterday. It got old by 2001, really.
med2089
QUOTE(El-P @ Feb 18 2012, 07:12 AM) *
Wrestling needs to be done with owners, GM and commisioners storylines, like, yesterday. It got old by 2001, really.

But...but...that made money once! Sure, it was 15 years ago, but it did! It HAS to work again!
Dooley
QUOTE(El-P @ Feb 18 2012, 07:12 AM) *
Wrestling needs to be done with owners, GM and commisioners storylines, like, yesterday. It got old by 2001, really.


Yeah, the great thing about Jack Tunney was you saw him 4 times a year and he always made an important announcement or ruling before shuffling back off to the golf course.
Loss
QUOTE(Boondocks Kernoodle @ Feb 18 2012, 05:08 AM) *
HHH was removed as Raw GM but he's still COO. And Vince is still chairman.


Yet he has the power to fire the RAW GM, but not to make himself the RAW GM.
El-P
QUOTE(Loss @ Feb 18 2012, 11:35 AM) *
QUOTE(Boondocks Kernoodle @ Feb 18 2012, 05:08 AM) *
HHH was removed as Raw GM but he's still COO. And Vince is still chairman.


Yet he has the power to fire the RAW GM, but not to make himself the RAW GM.


We need that Konnan quote John. Now.
NintendoLogic
QUOTE(Loss @ Feb 18 2012, 12:35 PM) *
QUOTE(Boondocks Kernoodle @ Feb 18 2012, 05:08 AM) *
HHH was removed as Raw GM but he's still COO. And Vince is still chairman.


Yet he has the power to fire the RAW GM, but not to make himself the RAW GM.


And he apparently only has that power while Raw is on the air. He was all set to fire Laurinaitis before Undertaker showed up, but then he did nothing the entire rest of the week.
sek69
I see it more as Vince is Steve Jobs in the mid 80s where he owned part of the company but he's such an asshole the board voted him out of any position of power. So instead of leaving to create Pixar, Vince is staying around to deliver messages for the board which is really the most ridiculous part of the kayfabe WWE power structure. To think that the TV character Mr. McMahon would be reduced to playing messenger boy is more of a suspension of disbelief fail than anything else.

What's weird is that they seem to be booking HHH as taking over Linda's role more than Vince. It was always told on TV that she ran the business end while Vince ran the TV shows/matchmaking. Now with all this "good for business" talk from Hunter it's as if that's the role he's being slotted for and he won't be a major TV character when the time comes where "all of this is his".
Loss
Maybe the anonymous Board of Directors is the same people that were on the Executive Championship Committee in WCW. I hope Sonny Onoo under a pseudonym and Woman From France are involved.
Ricky Jackson
I think more thought has been put into the logic of the WWE's storyline power structure in these last few posts than anything coming from WWE creative regarding the matter.
FLIK
QUOTE(El-P @ Feb 18 2012, 04:12 AM) *
Wrestling needs to be done with owners, GM and commisioners storylines, like, yesterday. It got old by 2001, really.


They've been doing it for so long that I legit don't think ppl in charge realise you can do "story" based wrestling without having an authority figure as a central character. Not even a WWE problem either as it's spread industry wide at this point, Indies, Japan, Mexico, all over.

It can make for a great angle when done right but year after year of this crap is just too much.

Jingus
QUOTE(FLIK @ Feb 18 2012, 07:17 PM) *
They've been doing it for so long that I legit don't think ppl in charge realise you can do "story" based wrestling without having an authority figure as a central character. Not even a WWE problem either as it's spread industry wide at this point, Indies, Japan, Mexico, all over.

Yeah. The vast majority of the shows I've ever worked have constantly had some kind of power-struggle angles happening. Some are NWO "heel faction trying to ruin the company" stuff, some are Commissioner/President/GM storylines ripping off old Mr. McMahon storylines, and every once in a while you'll get a fed-vs-fed invasion deal. All of which would be nice if they didn't happen all the goddamn time on every goddamn show.
Loss
I've always thought that your figurehead can be a bland, generic old white dude in most cases, because seeing charismatic wrestlers next to an everyday guy makes the wrestlers look more like stars because of the strong contrast. An effective figurehead doesn't need to be a strong promo. Occasionally, you get a Bob Armstrong or an Eddie Marlin that is a strong promo and can help sell things, but they're ex-wrestlers and are presented in a smart way. With those guys, maybe you can do more adventurous things. Jack Tunney being a pasty old white dude with no personality totally worked in the 80s WWF setting, because it made all the larger-than-life characters seem even more so.
cm funk
Seems like the GM role has taken the place of managers for the most part. Not a good thing.
jdw
Lordy... there are 26 pages of this thread? I was hoping there were only 5 to make it easier to refresh my memory on what we all thought of Trip taking over.

John
Ricky Jackson
And 40 pages for the Summer of Punk. Ah, we were so passionate about the WWE back in those days. wink.gif
MARTYEWR
John Laurinaitis is no longer listed in the group of WWE Executive Officers. Hunter has taken his place as Executive Vice President, Talent and Live Events.

http://corporate.wwe.com/company/executive.jsp
http://corporate.wwe.com/company/bios/p_levesque.jsp

Pretty much expected from the standpoint of HHH's position, but I am curious what that means for Big Johnny's position in the company.
Sean Liska
QUOTE(MARTYEWR @ Jun 11 2012, 01:45 PM) *
John Laurinaitis is no longer listed in the group of WWE Executive Officers. Hunter has taken his place as Executive Vice President, Talent and Live Events.

http://corporate.wwe.com/company/executive.jsp
http://corporate.wwe.com/company/bios/p_levesque.jsp

Pretty much expected from the standpoint of HHH's position, but I am curious what that means for Big Johnny's position in the company.


This happened a long time ago, I remember seeing it in the Observer. It doesn't seem to mean anything.
Bix
Are you sure? I don't remember HHH having "and Live Events" added to his title or Laurinaitis losing Executive Officer status.
Sean Liska
QUOTE(Bix @ Jun 11 2012, 05:04 PM) *
Are you sure? I don't remember HHH having "and Live Events" added to his title or Laurinaitis losing Executive Officer status.


I swear I remember reading something in the Observer about Laurinaitis losing his executive title and reporting to HHH, but I have no idea when this happened or which back issues to look through. I thought his EVP Talent Relations title was only for TV at this point.
sek69
Wasn't the talent department reorganized when HHH took over developmental? I know it was reported that he would be Johnny's boss in the new organizational chart but it wasn't seen as a demotion.
Bix
I remembered having a discussion on the F4W board about the difference between HHH and Laurinaitis's titles when HHH had the more generic "EVP, Talent" title, so I looked it up and it was from the beginning of March. That was a couple weeks before Ty Bailey was fired.

Googling around, the earliest mention of the expansion of HHH's title to include the live events department is the press release about the Full Sail U partnership a month ago.

I'm pretty sure that Laurinaitis reporting to HHH goes back to HHH getting the "EVP, Talent" title, which happened last year.

HHH taking over the department completely was inevitable but Laurinaitis officially getting demoted (and possibly fired from the office job since he's suddenly working a lot of house shows) feels like a bigger story than how it's being reported.
jdw
This isn't that new, just not pushed:

Last year's Annual Report / DEF 14A Statement filed 3/18/2011:

QUOTE
Other Executive Officers

[...]

John Laurinaitis has served as Executive Vice President, Talent Relations, since March 2009, and as Senior Vice President, Talent Relations, since February 2007. Prior to that, Mr. Laurinaitis was Vice President, Talent Relations, since June 2004, and Director of Talent Relations from June 2001.


Trip wasn't listed as an Executive Officer.

From the Annual Report / DEF 14A Statement filed 03/16/12:

QUOTE
Other Executive Officers

[...]

Paul Levesque has been our Executive Vice President, Talent since August 2011. In this role, he oversees the talent relations and talent development departments, training of WWE Superstars and Divas, and management of worldwide recruitment. In addition to his talent duties, Mr. Levesque has continually had an integral role behind the scenes; as a director and producer he works to shape the creative direction and storylines of WWE’s programming. Mr. Levesque debuted as a WWE Superstar in 1995 and has captured every major championship, headlined thousands of WWE events, and entertained millions around the world. He is the national spokesperson for Muscular Dystrophy’s “Make a Muscle, Make a Difference” campaign. Mr. Levesque has had starring roles in commercials, television programs, talk shows and feature-length films. He is author of Make the Game: Triple H’s Approach to a Better Body. Mr. Levesque is the husband of Stephanie McMahon and the son-in-law of Vincent McMahon.


John
jdw
The WWE also called him it in the old Trip Shoots On Meltzer thing earlier this year:

http://teaspoon-and-whitey.info/2012/03/20...of-fcws-closing

John
jdw
Scooped by a fucking Triple H fansite:

http://www.klqwrestling.com/2011/09/paul-l...-executive.html
jdw
So yeah, old shit. Johnny has been demoted since at least last August, though perhaps got a new increased demotion. But this all looks like it was done back at the Trip Is Taking Over period, not long after this thread started last year.

John
sek69
Honestly, I just figured they were arranging the deck chairs to give Hunter an EVP title now so when the time comes shareholders won't freak over someone with no executive experience taking over.


In a related note, it was funny to hear Dave answering a reader question by stating WWE hasn't used Mick Foley since bringing him back because Hunter still gets irritated that the consensus is the matches with Mick made him a star.
Bix
John, I know that Levesque has been "EVP, Talent" since last year. He had the title concurrently with Laurinaitis being "EVP of Talent Relations." Levesque being "EVP, Talent and Live Events" with Levesque officially being demoted from executive officer status is what's new. It's been known for a while that Laurinaitis was reporting to Levesque and that the talent relations department would become Levesque's, but I don't remember any speculation about Laurinaitis losing his executive officer status or maybe being fired as an office worker, which is a pretty big deal.
Loss
HHH should get rid of the executive ponytail. I bet it's hard to keep his hair from falling out of that perfect coif during one of those long days at the office.
jdw
QUOTE(Bix @ Jun 12 2012, 08:35 AM) *
John, I know that Levesque has been "EVP, Talent" since last year. He had the title concurrently with Laurinaitis being "EVP of Talent Relations." Levesque being "EVP, Talent and Live Events" with Levesque officially being demoted from executive officer status is what's new. It's been known for a while that Laurinaitis was reporting to Levesque and that the talent relations department would become Levesque's, but I don't remember any speculation about Laurinaitis losing his executive officer status or maybe being fired as an office worker, which is a pretty big deal.


Laurinaitis wasn't EVP of Talent Relations of talent relations no later than 03/16/12: he had been removed from the Executive Officers in the companies DEF 14A Statement filing with the SEC, which is far more authoritative than anything we can gleen off the google. He had been on the one filed the year before, while Trip wasn't.

March at the lasted, but frankly a good deal earlier since there's no way it happened the day they filed nor something inserted / deleted in the last round of editing the document before filing. Logically it happened when Trip got promoted to EVP since you typically don't have an EVP reporting to and EVP. But even if it wasn't Aug 2011, it probably was no later than the turn of the year given the filing.

As for there being a lack of reporting / speculation... it's the freaking Pro Wrestling Media. Like they're always hip on this stuff if it doesn't slap them in the face? How many of them actually regularly go over to EDGAR to read and think about the public filings? If they had, something was staring them in the face in the March filing and they could have asked their sources in the WWE when and why Johnny had gotten demoted.

John
Bix
Huh, how about that: http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displa...cik%253d1091907

Wonder why it took them so long to change the WWE Corporate website. And what HHH's official corporate role was before the August 2011 promotion (he has a salary listed for 2010, but not 2009, so it's not referring to his talent contract).
Sean Liska
QUOTE(jdw @ Jun 12 2012, 02:49 PM) *
As for there being a lack of reporting / speculation... it's the freaking Pro Wrestling Media. Like they're always hip on this stuff if it doesn't slap them in the face? How many of them actually regularly go over to EDGAR to read and think about the public filings? If they had, something was staring them in the face in the March filing and they could have asked their sources in the WWE when and why Johnny had gotten demoted.


To be fair - Dave was on this, I just can't remember the issue.
jdw
QUOTE(Bix @ Jun 12 2012, 01:46 PM) *
Huh, how about that: http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displa...cik%253d1091907

Wonder why it took them so long to change the WWE Corporate website. And what HHH's official corporate role was before the August 2011 promotion (he has a salary listed for 2010, but not 2009, so it's not referring to his talent contract).


That SEC filing is the one mentioned and quoted above.

As far as his old title:

http://www.wrestleview.com/viewnews.php?id=1283981091

http://whatculture.com/wwe/jim-cornette-sa...cmahon-dies.php

Senior Advisor / Executive Senior Advisor

Old stuff. Just don't think any of us were paying that much attention because it doesn't change all that much: Vince runs the place, Trip & Steph are the heirs, Shane has checked out.

John

John
jdw
QUOTE(Sean Liska @ Jun 12 2012, 02:56 PM) *
QUOTE(jdw @ Jun 12 2012, 02:49 PM) *
As for there being a lack of reporting / speculation... it's the freaking Pro Wrestling Media. Like they're always hip on this stuff if it doesn't slap them in the face? How many of them actually regularly go over to EDGAR to read and think about the public filings? If they had, something was staring them in the face in the March filing and they could have asked their sources in the WWE when and why Johnny had gotten demoted.


To be fair - Dave was on this, I just can't remember the issue.


I think the general concept of it was always out there: Trip has been groomed to run aspects of the business. That was guessed at for about as long as he's been banging Steph. It just got more explicit when things like Corny's comments came out, and again last year after MitB.

As far as Johnny taking it in the shorts, or appearing to, that's mild news and probably worth someone digging deeper into like MKJ.

John
Bix
I remember "Senior Adviser" now that you mention it...
sek69
Johnny's whole career has been based upon him being able to kiss the ass of whoever is in charge, it would be interesting to see if he ends up the first head to roll since it's been mentioned several times Hunter and Steph want to replace all of Vince's flunkies when they take over.
Johnny Sorrow
QUOTE(sek69 @ Jun 14 2012, 12:26 AM) *
Johnny's whole career has been based upon him being able to kiss the ass of whoever is in charge, it would be interesting to see if he ends up the first head to roll since it's been mentioned several times Hunter and Steph want to replace all of Vince's flunkies when they take over.


"Hey, Hayes...Remember when a drunken you almost ruined our wedding reception? See Ya!"
El-P
QUOTE(sek69 @ Jun 14 2012, 12:26 AM) *
Johnny's whole career has been based upon him being able to kiss the ass of whoever is in charge, it would be interesting to see if he ends up the first head to roll since it's been mentioned several times Hunter and Steph want to replace all of Vince's flunkies when they take over.


The real post-Vince WWE could be fascinating for a while, watching how they handle the change.
Bix
QUOTE(sek69 @ Jun 14 2012, 02:26 AM) *
Johnny's whole career has been based upon him being able to kiss the ass of whoever is in charge, it would be interesting to see if he ends up the first head to roll since it's been mentioned several times Hunter and Steph want to replace all of Vince's flunkies when they take over.

Meltzer has strongly implied in the past that Stephanie is a Laurinaitis booster so I'm not so sure about that, especially since he's outright said they'll fire Kevin Dunn as soon as they get full control.
jdw
If Dunn is smart, he will be setting up retirement at that point. He's 51/52. Barring death, Vince isn't going to step down today. 5 more years, Dunn is 55+. Rather than taking a fulltime gig, he probably could do consulting / advisory stuff with production companies.
Johnny Guitar
QUOTE(Bix @ Jun 14 2012, 10:49 AM) *
QUOTE(sek69 @ Jun 14 2012, 02:26 AM) *
Johnny's whole career has been based upon him being able to kiss the ass of whoever is in charge, it would be interesting to see if he ends up the first head to roll since it's been mentioned several times Hunter and Steph want to replace all of Vince's flunkies when they take over.

Meltzer has strongly implied in the past that Stephanie is a Laurinaitis booster so I'm not so sure about that, especially since he's outright said they'll fire Kevin Dunn as soon as they get full control.



QUOTE(jdw @ Jun 15 2012, 02:25 PM) *
If Dunn is smart, he will be setting up retirement at that point. He's 51/52. Barring death, Vince isn't going to step down today. 5 more years, Dunn is 55+. Rather than taking a fulltime gig, he probably could do consulting / advisory stuff with production companies.


Dunn knows "where the bodies are buried". If Trips and Steph are smart they'll keep him him sweet. There's a reason James Dudley is in the Hall of Fame.
Loss
I wonder if HHH is going to have consequences for some of the people he's burned on his way up once he gets to the top. Sure, they may work for him if he's the only game in town, but will he command the same loyalty that Vince has had?
Johnny Guitar
QUOTE(Loss @ Jun 15 2012, 03:53 PM) *
I wonder if HHH is going to have consequences for some of the people he's burned on his way up once he gets to the top. Sure, they may work for him if he's the only game in town, but will he command the same loyalty that Vince has had?


You meet the same people on the way up as you do on the way down.

HHH is never going to get the same respect as Vince.

RVD was willing to talk shit about him, even when he was under contract and could have been buried.

Bret, Austin & Rock don't like him, and are all rich enough that they don't need a handout.

Would him and steph be willing to put people like that in front of a live crowd?



Boondocks Kernoodle
Maybe the younger ones will respect him, but the wrestlers who have been around long enough to remember when he was "one of the boys" (even though he's been management for over a decade, albeit in an unofficial capacity for a lot of that) will never view him as a Vince-like figure.

What I wonder about is the treatment of some of the legends in a HHH-run WWE, specifically the ones he doesn't like. Would there be any place for occasional Bret or Foley appearances if he was the one in charge? Dave has reported that HHH was against Bret's comeback and all of Hogan's after the initial 2002 run, so I don't think he has Vince's capacity to put aside personal differences for business's sake, though that might change when it's his money and reputation on the line.
Johnny Guitar
QUOTE(Boondocks Kernoodle @ Jun 15 2012, 04:57 PM) *
Maybe the younger ones will respect him, but the wrestlers who have been around long enough to remember when he was "one of the boys" (even though he's been management for over a decade, albeit in an unofficial capacity for a lot of that) will never view him as a Vince-like figure.

What I wonder about is the treatment of some of the legends in a HHH-run WWE, specifically the ones he doesn't like. Would there be any place for occasional Bret or Foley appearances if he was the one in charge? Dave has reported that HHH was against Bret's comeback and all of Hogan's after the initial 2002 run, so I don't think he has Vince's capacity to put aside personal differences for business's sake, though that might change when it's his money and reputation on the line.


For all Vince's problem's. Showing ass isn't one of them. Would HHH be willing to do the same? Past history shows not.

Hunter has always striked me as a paranoid motherfucker. Would he be willing to let someone like Steve Austin, who not only has fuck you money and hates his guts, but is over like rover go on live TV...

Edit: ... and trash him to advance a feud? And then do the job if required. If it meant money being made.
jdw
QUOTE(Johnny Guitar @ Jun 15 2012, 02:48 PM) *
Dunn knows "where the bodies are buried". If Trips and Steph are smart they'll keep him him sweet. There's a reason James Dudley is in the Hall of Fame.


Trip and Steph aren't smart. The question is whether Vince "retires" and gets them to understand what Dunn knows, or if he dies suddenly and Trip & Steph go all Night of the Long Knives on their perceived enemies once in power.

John
El-P
The fact that they do nothing with Foley despite having him under contract just because Trip doesn't like the talking point of Foley making him a star back in the days is pretty telling.
sek69
Dunn must know a lot of shit, since it seems like he has a knack for rubbing practically everyone the wrong way. Then again, based on what we know about Vince maybe that's the appeal.
Chess Knight
QUOTE(Boondocks Kernoodle @ Jun 16 2012, 09:27 AM) *
What I wonder about is the treatment of some of the legends in a HHH-run WWE, specifically the ones he doesn't like. Would there be any place for occasional Bret or Foley appearances if he was the one in charge?


This was aritcle was put up on a website today/yesterday.

yeah......

QUOTE
Wrestling Observer editor Dave Meltzer was asked by a reader during his radio show why WWE has not utilized Mick Foley on television more frequently since his return to the organization last November. He said this is due to wrestler/executive Paul 'Triple H' Levesque's lobbying, who is resentful of "The Hardcore Legend."

Meltzer reports Levesque deprecates Foley whenever his name is broached in creative meetings. While Brian Gewirtz, WWE's Senior Vice President of Creative Writing, feels Foley is a creative and a good performer, Levesque thinks otherwise. He says Foley 'doesn't look tough' and can't be taken seriously as an in-ring performer.

A former WWE creative writer told Power Slam in 2008 under the condition of anonymity that Levesque would disparage Foley whenever he appeared for the company, and in the process, diminished his value in the eyes of Vince and Stephanie McMahon.

"Foley is an out-of-shape nobody," Levesque was reported as saying by the writer. "No one cares about him at all. Funaki puts more asses in the seats than Foley does. He should pay us for coming on our shows."

Meltzer believes the real reason Levesque still holds Foley in contempt is because he gets irritated over the consensus of his closest co-workers that his memorable matches with Foley in 2000 'made him a star.'

Foley has criticized Levesque in the past; he took several veiled shots at 'H in his 2007 autobiography The Hardcore Diaries. He also took issue online with Levesque belittling ring announcer Lilian Garcia with a remark he felt was hurtful during an April 2010 episode of Raw. Foley acknowledged then that he may have cost himself professionally, but felt he had to stand by his principles.


......true or not? IDK, but I can't imagine how Trip is going to be when he gets old. Probably be 25 times more batshit and paranoid than Vince ever was.
Loss
I would really like it if we could stop calling him "Levesque". I see this happening more. Why not just HHH?
Loss
QUOTE(Johnny Guitar @ Jun 15 2012, 10:54 PM) *
Bret, Austin & Rock don't like him, and are all rich enough that they don't need a handout.


Austin doesn't like him?
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