Biggest fall from grace

[Jimmy Redman]

The problem with the Miz is that you can't buy him as tough. There's just nothing about the guy that says "this guy is tough/dangerous." For all the whining I saw on the internet about how they were making him look like the new Honky Tonk Man, I feel like he needed way more interference & gimmicks for his title run to work. They really needed to play it as "this guy is way too weak to keep the title against ___ challenger" and then have him jump through all kinds of hoops to get sneaking out wins. Even the PPV match with Lawler, he should have never won that match clean with a Skull Crushing Finale.

I think this was pretty much what I was trying to say, expressed much better.

[anarchistxx]

I often compared his situation to Edge's, and while at the time a lot of people were upset that Edge had a three week reign and they went back to Hunter for WM, I think in the end it worked out much better for him, because he wasn't trying to play a Mania main eventer before he was ready to. Instead he got a big win over Foley on the show and used it to lead into his summer push to the top, where there is less scrutiny.

Edge has/had a lot more natural charisma and star power that The Miz. He looked cooler, and the Lita thing really helped propel him to that level. Also, Edge had been a regular since 1998, had been mixing it with main eventers since 2002, so his title push in 2006 didn't feel premature, especially given the shocking way it unfolded. And yeah, he was booked pretty much perfectly in that period, from the Matt Hardy feud to the 'live sex' to the Foley stuff.

 

Miz not only looks weedy and unthreatening, he has no cutting edge or cool factor either. He isn't particularly impressive on the mic. His finisher wasn't especially spectacular or over. His in ring skills were average at best. He looked like a guy playing at being a wrestler. There was nothing about him that screamed 'top guy', and the booking didn't help. I don't see any real comparisons with Edge.

[Jimmy Redman]

I often compared his situation to Edge's, and while at the time a lot of people were upset that Edge had a three week reign and they went back to Hunter for WM, I think in the end it worked out much better for him, because he wasn't trying to play a Mania main eventer before he was ready to. Instead he got a big win over Foley on the show and used it to lead into his summer push to the top, where there is less scrutiny.

Edge has/had a lot more natural charisma and star power that The Miz. He looked cooler, and the Lita thing really helped propel him to that level. Also, Edge had been a regular since 1998, had been mixing it with main eventers since 2002, so his title push in 2006 didn't feel premature, especially given the shocking way it unfolded. And yeah, he was booked pretty much perfectly in that period, from the Matt Hardy feud to the 'live sex' to the Foley stuff.

 

Miz not only looks weedy and unthreatening, he has no cutting edge or cool factor either. He isn't particularly impressive on the mic. His finisher wasn't especially spectacular or over. His in ring skills were average at best. He looked like a guy playing at being a wrestler. There was nothing about him that screamed 'top guy', and the booking didn't help. I don't see any real comparisons with Edge.

 

I wasn't comparing them as wrestlers in terms of their talent or upside, just the situations they found themselves in. By that I mean that they were midcard heels who were at the time the "next big thing" when they won MITB and got their push to the top. A lot of other guys seemed to luck into the briefcase, but they were clearly intent on pushing Miz, rightly or wrongly.

 

My point is that they didn't give Edge the briefcase and then throw their hands up and wait for him to cash in. He won the case and he was still a midcard heel looking for a spot. Luckily for his career Lita happened. But also look at the way they booked him in 2005. He won the Gold Rush tournament for a title shot, and ended up with Lita and the sleazy heel act that would propel him to the top. He won the feud with Matt. He was winning the feud with Flair. He slowly started looking more and more like a top guy...and then he cashed in.

 

..and had a three week transitional reign. But then he had a high profile feud with Foley and got the spectacular win at WM. Moved back into the title picture post-Mania, stole the title back, and then went over RVD and Cena on PPV and finally ended up as a main event level guy, ready to carry Smackdown starting the next year. It was an entire 18 month process from after he won the case to get him to that level. And that is a guy on the level of Edge, not the freaking Miz.

 

So TL;DR, if they really wanted to push Miz to main event level, they needed to do it properly by building him up more beforehand and protecting him by not having him be a) completely ineffective, and an undeserving WWE Champ in a Mania build standing next to Cena and Rock. If he had the same 9 months of time after MITB to make the climb and win some major feuds (in reality he went almost straight from losing the US Title to Bryan to cashing in. I can't even remember what he was doing in October-November, probably lost in the Bragging Rights shuffle.) he may have looked a bit more believable by the time he cashed in. If he cashed in/had his title reign sometime other than during Mania season, he might not have looked so inadequate in comparison to real stars. If they hadn't booked him as a joke during his reign, he may have been able to recover from it after it ended.

 

Maybe in the end none of that matters, because its The Miz and there's just something inherently missing for him to work on top. More and more I am believing that myself. But the way they booked his title reign was a failure, is really my main point.

[Loss]

I'm starting to wonder if we should consider Ric Flair in this category.

[flyonthewall2983]

Eh, I keep thinking this thread is more about specifically the fall from grace on the roster than in personal lives and such.

[Log]

Well, when he last appeared he was stuck with Miz.

[JerryvonKramer]

Eh, I keep thinking this thread is more about specifically the fall from grace on the roster than in personal lives and such.

Yes. This at least was my original intention in June 2011.

 

I was hoping this question wouldn't be taken down that route really. Let me try something else hold on.

 

Oh, I can't edit the title. Can a mod change it to something like "Biggest and fastest fall down the roster"? That would be grand!

 

That's what I'm getting at. Someone who went from the top or near the top of the card to lower midcard or worse. No real interest in talking about Benoit, or even Luger, Hall, Jake or anything like that. I'm talking purely in terms of the push.

 

The Renegade would be someone to mention, for example.

But that doesn't necessarily exclude Flair. His period under Bischoff after 95-6 to 98 for example saw him go from main eventer and company legend to virtual bit-part player. But then he goes back up the card, and then is presented as a legend in WWE with prominent feuds and matches until his in-ring retirement, so he's not a great example.

 

Someone like Pedro Morales, for example, would count over a long period. From world champ to JTTS in 20 years.

 

All wrestlers ultimately slide down the card. The question is who had the biggest fall. You'd be hard-pressed to make a real case for Flair.

[SteveJRogers]

Wade Barrett

 

From the leader of an "invading" force with tons of TV time, feuds with John Cena and Randy Orton, the latter with the title on the line (in fact, Barrett with 5 PPV shots at the World or WWE titles ranks second all time to Davey Boy Smith's 6 for most title shots on PPV without ever winning either the WWE, World or ECW belts).

 

To getting injured and repackaged with nary a mention of his past, in mid-card hell, even after winning the IC title, and finally doing a regular comedic bit on the WWE YouTube series The JBL & Cole Show called #BadNewsBarrett.

[Sidebottom]

I always think of Savage winning the WWF title from Flair at Wrestlemania 8... to not even being booked to wrestle on the following years card as a standout.

 

Bret Hart being THE man in the WWF in 97, beating Austin, Undertaker, Foley (and in most peoples eyes not realy losing the belt to Shawn) and knocking out Vince for real to seeming so ordinary in 1998.

 

Austin at Wrestlemania 17 being white hot... to the first time in years seeming so average at Mania 18 is another.

 

Wrestling is a funny thing.

[flyonthewall2983]

In terms of wrestling pushes, King Kong Bundy seems like a good example. Went from main eventing against Hogan to squashing a midget in one year.

Yeah, but he would go up against Hogan again a few times before he left.

[Smack2k]

One I dont see listed and think fits this to a TEE is Scott Steiner in 2003 WWE and afterward...He comes in late 2002, people are psyched, gets into the HHH feud, top of teh card....Then Rumble 2003 and No Way Out 2003 happen and POOF...he is gone. Off to mid-card matches and NEVER really thought of as anythign great again...even when TNA put him in a prominent role

[cheapshot]

For me I'd say Bob Backlund - From headlining many MSG sellouts to working with Herb Abrams.