jdw Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Every promotion has been influenced by MMA in recent years. Has the NFL been strongly influenced by MMA in recent years? The EPL? John Do you have a point? MMA is a sport. If it's a sport of such great influence, you'd think the Big Boys of Sport would be influence by it... rather than say... Entertainment Companies. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Is what true of shoot style? That there's no market for it now that the real thing is readily available. There never was a market for it in the US. No shoot style promotion has ever been successful in the US on a large scale, unless one wants to pretend that pro wrestling in the 30s or 20s was shoot style (even though it had been exposed as fake regularly by that point). In the TV era, it just hasn't been the case. MMA really didn't matter. The majority of the country knew wrestling was fake. The majority of the non-kid fans who attended it knew it was fake, and just played along. I agree with the earlier posters: if MMA fans want to watch MMA, they'll watch MMA rather than Fake MMA Pro Wrestling In ROH. There's so much free MMA on TV, along with loads of MMA PPV, that who would even care to seek out Fake MMA. It's just delusional nonsense of guys like Heyman and Cornette, who have probably been listening too much to Dave, to think Fake MMA Influenced Pro Wrestling is going to draw big. Christ... MMA is having it's issues drawing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I presume you're considering the first UWFI Shootwrestling PPV an anomaly (it did one of the best non-big 2 wrestling PPV numbers ever, IIRC) because it was a fluke (huge ad budget that was subsequently dropped, different PPV landscape, etc) and the buys nosedived for shows two and three? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 What amazes me is how stubborn they are about letting guys have gimmicks and be entertaining. Why isn't Jay Lethal doing Black Machismo? He's a million times more interesting when he's doing that gimmick. Instead he's just doing a dull, kind of lifeless gimmick. It's a little thing but RoH is doing a lot of those little things that hurt them. Bringing in Colt Cabana and just letting Lethal do his gimmick would make their roster a lot more interesting and that's just two tiny little changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Every promotion has been influenced by MMA in recent years. Has the NFL been strongly influenced by MMA in recent years? The EPL? John Do you have a point? MMA is a sport. If it's a sport of such great influence, you'd think the Big Boys of Sport would be influence by it... rather than say... Entertainment Companies. John I was talking about professional wrestling promotions being influenced by MMA, not MMA's influence in general. Anyway, I think the MMA in ROH thing is being overstated. It's not like Kevin Steen and the Briscoes are busting out rear naked chokes. It's coming from guys like Davey Richards and Kyle O'Reilly who are already marks for the stuff. That's also why I think blaming Cornette for it is a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Pretty sure NESLogic meant "isn't it probably true that worked-shoot style style has largely gone out of fashion, with practically no fans remaining, because real shoots are so incredibly easy to find nowadays"? You can almost mark a direct correlation between the popularity of the fake shoots and the current mainstream popularity of the real ones. And how many fans would pay to watch two guys pretend to have a fight if they're not running the ropes and working the crowd and doing a bunch of stuff besides fake-circling-each-other or fake-laying-in-the-guard? Don't quite see the correlation when MMA is pretty much dead in Japan well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Pretty sure NESLogic meant "isn't it probably true that worked-shoot style style has largely gone out of fashion, with practically no fans remaining, because real shoots are so incredibly easy to find nowadays"? You can almost mark a direct correlation between the popularity of the fake shoots and the current mainstream popularity of the real ones. And how many fans would pay to watch two guys pretend to have a fight if they're not running the ropes and working the crowd and doing a bunch of stuff besides fake-circling-each-other or fake-laying-in-the-guard? Don't quite see the correlation when MMA is pretty much dead in Japan well. FWIW, in his shoot interview, Tajiri said he thinks MMA has nothing to do with wrestling popularity going down. To him pro-wrestling is down because the emphasis has been put on dangerous moves instead of showcasing strong characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I presume you're considering the first UWFI Shootwrestling PPV an anomaly (it did one of the best non-big 2 wrestling PPV numbers ever, IIRC) because it was a fluke (huge ad budget that was subsequently dropped, different PPV landscape, etc) and the buys nosedived for shows two and three? It was total fluke. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 40 minute self-aware "epics" with the killing of both near falls and moves has more to do with ROH being a bucket of suck than the faux MMA does, IMO. I don't wanna see Steen doing Suplerplexes onto guard rails either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I was talking about professional wrestling promotions being influenced by MMA, not MMA's influence in general. I know. And my point earlier on Cornette and Heyman being influenced by MMA being funny is that... it's funny and stupid. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 ROH makes announcement regarding tag titles With the appearance of Kenny King on TNA programming and his subsequent being dropped from the promotion, Ring of Honor announced today there will be an eight-team tournament for the tag team titles King had held with Rhett Titus. The first four matches will take place at the 8/3 TV tapings in Baltimore at the Du Burns Arena. Dates for the semifinals and finals were not announced. The only team announced thus far in the tournament was Mark & Jay Briscoe. "Yippy~!" -A. Skywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Wrestling companies looking to MMA for help should consider that TNA outdraws the Ultimate Fighter and equals UFC on FX events. WWE programming kills UFC programming. Why would you turn to something that draws less eyeballs than pro wrestling to invigorate your wrestling product? I do think there is a room for an MMA inspired character. Shooters have always had their place in the business. But it should be used sparingly, as a gimmick, not as a direction for an entire company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Because people lay down more money for the PPVs than they do for wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 RoH randomly threw another iPPV out there and the headline of the show is Kevin Steen vs. Eddie Kingston. It's about 3 weeks from now and Kingston hasn't appeared once on RoH Television. How does that even fucking make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 RoH randomly threw another iPPV out there and the headline of the show is Kevin Steen vs. Eddie Kingston. It's about 3 weeks from now and Kingston hasn't appeared once on RoH Television. How does that even fucking make sense? Eddie was on last week's TV. It is a good idea as the show will be less of a loss maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 The fact they aren't giving this one away for free should make it less of a loss maker. Even if Kingston costs a little less, is that going to really help if fewer people buy the show? Wouldn't something like Steen/Cole drawn more buys than bringing in Kingston a few weeks before the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 My guess is they are trying to mooch off of Chikara which has notoriously loyal fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 They've been cross promotiong with Chikara and building a feud with Kingston vs Steen for a few months now. They allready had one match that ended in DQ so this is the re-match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 ROH continues mooching off their former roster members that went on to bigger and better things, now there's a Samoa Joe DVD. Pretty mediocre match listing too, nothing before 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingPower Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 ROH is clearly just trying anything they can to find a revenue source. Releasing old footage of guys who went on to bigger & better things is smart to me especially since most of their older DVD stock was no longer available and the main selling point of them anymore would have been matches of these guys. The sad part about the situation is more people buy these comps of old guys than their current product (not unlike WWE). They are also clearly (slowly) abandoning the live show/DVD model in favor of trying to take advantage of iPPVs. Certainly the newly added PPV will have more people watching & more $ coming in with PPV added to live crowd #s. But I'm concerned just how quickly they burn out that revenue stream. To me this show is extremely skippable. Moving the product toward nothing but TV & iPPV is a more likely end result here than the company closing up in the next year or so but if creative changes aren't made, I think they are in for more fan apathy & falling business in that time. Oh and a point that most seemed to miss in the pages of earlier discussion, I don't think ROH ever wanted to attract the MMA viewers/fans themselves. The intent was to get the lapsed wrestling fans back, some of whom probably had moved on to watching MMA just as a "something to watch". I've never thought wrestling should be influenced by MMA as wrestling has always been sold as an extension of amateur wrestling, not of a fighting art form. The point is to pin someone, not injure them. Anyway, I had no problem with the "faux MMA" storyline as to me it was an attempt to modernize things & play off of something clearly a part of pop culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 iPPV last night and ::gasps:: technical problems again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 Not sure what is more worrisome to Ring of Honor: the constant IPPV connection issues or the fact that they really seem to be pushing a Matt Hardy vs Kevin Steen title program. Granted I would rather see Matt vs steen at Final Battle then what I fully expect to happen which is Davey vs Steen at Final Battle with Richards winning the title. Also Jacobs and Corino won the tag titles last night which I guess makes sense given how weak the division has gotten recently Apparently they are also try to tell us last night that Adam Cole is like the next Matt Hardy which is something I have never heard of before. I never looked at Cole/O'Reilly as a rip off of the Hardys. but at least they were smart enough to make him heel since the ROH crowd will never like seeing Matt in the ring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 or the fact that they really seem to be pushing a Matt Hardy vs Kevin Steen title program By all accounts over the last few months Matt's cleaned himself up & has gotten back into good shape so i've got no problem with this myself. since the ROH crowd will never like seeing Matt in the ring Diffrent era but I liked his original mini run in ROH he did years ago & thought he fit in well thear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 I don't know maybe I would have to look at the Roderick Strong vs Matt Hardy match from 2005 I think because at the time I though Matt was half assing it because he knew he was going back to the WWE. But I agree that he has improved in the last 4 to 6 months on the indies and I wouldn't have an issue with steen vs Hardy if it means never seeing Richards vs Steen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 16, 2012 Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 A Kevin Steen style main event is the last thing Matt should be booked in right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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