Loss Posted October 9, 2012 Report Share Posted October 9, 2012 Talk about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Awesome, early stuff between these two. Waltman looks to weigh about 160 if we're being generous. They pull out all the stops right away, and the dives look even more dangerous considering the low ceiling in the building. Hell of a brawl. Lynn starts bleeding pretty early and picks up a table and throws it at Kid. There are some great moves and highspots, but these guys are wise beyond their years in how they work them into a match layout and build heat. There's also tons of aggression and this has feel of a match that has gotten completely out of hand. Kid isn't happy to lose the match and ends up attacking Lynn and pouring beer from a fan on him. I expected this to be a really strong hidden gem. I didn't expect it to be one of the best matches of the year, but it is. Can't wait to see their other matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Holy. Shit. Kid is apparently 18 years old here. I was going in expecting to see an interesting time capsule and an early '90s-style indy spotfest. And yeah, these are clearly guys who have studied their Japanese juniors and maybe their lucha. But this is a fucking FIGHT from the opening bell. The dives are the work of two guys who hate each other and are willing to sacrifice themselves to hurt the other one, instead of the work of guys trying to make things look pretty. The match layout is fantastic--I dunno if these guys worked this out beforehand Savage-style or if they called it in the ring, but Kid may have missed his calling as a Pat Patterson type in either case. No my turn/your turn shit--the heel Kid takes things to the hardcore level first and has some great cut-offs when Lynn appears to spring back on offense. We get moves countered when attempted a second time later in the match, some hot near falls, and a great finish with Lynn coming up with a counter to Kid's previous countermove, not to mention a bulldog that looks like it absolutely killed the Kid. Kid goes nuts after the match and brutalizes Lynn with a chair and then pours beer on him for good measure. This is everything a stereotypical indy spotfest today is not. The moves all made sense, the transitions all made sense, everything was EXECUTED superbly which is doubly amazing considering both guys' experience. There are definitely traces of modern indy 2.9 wrestling, but this is very much an old-style territory match in just about every way except that the moves are more advanced. Yeah, this is absolutely a legit MOTYC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Damn what a fabulous match mixing in great highspots, hatred, and psychology. One of the best US junior matches I may have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Man alive was this great. It was a blood feud Jr. heavyweight style. It mixes in great dives, and highspots. Except the high spots are hate filled, and are used to maximize damage to their opponents. Waltman even tastes Lynn's blood. Mn this was hate filled. Really awesome match. Can't wait to see more of this feud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 Waltman even tastes Lynn's blood. Awwww, no wonder he got Hep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Both guys slugging it out. Kid gets clotheslined to the outside. Missed dive off the top turnbuckle to the outside by Lynn. Seemed like he was worried about hitting the ceiling. Kid pushes a couple fans. Weird to see him as a heel due to his age and size. Audio of announcer makes it seem like he is doing a weather report during a Hurricane. We got someone smoking in front of the camera. Top rope moves look so dangerous in this building. Lynn wins with a good old fashion bulldog. Pretty good match which was more intense than I expected. Would have blown me away if I was watching it in 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 This was a ton of fun. Both of these guys would wind up having careers of various success, but I don't know that they had a ton of matches better than this one. This is like Low Ki vs Bryan Danielson + a ton of old school hatred. Just two dudes trying to maim each other, but using state of the art moves to do it. Not that it would have saved them, but it says something when these two guys are having matches like this right in the AWA's home territory, and neither one of them can get a shot there. Looking forward to seeing these guys bring the hate even more in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 I havent watched Ki/Dragon 2001-2002 series in a while but I love it as a comparison to the trilogy of matches we saw from Kid/Lynn in 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasch Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 You can start a thousand sentences this way but Verne was a fool for not bringing these guys in for a feud over the light heavyweight title. Its no Rock n Roll Zumhofe vs Regal but still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajtroma Posted May 27, 2013 Report Share Posted May 27, 2013 This was mind-blowing shit for 1990. The audio guy was clearly incompentant. Whoever the PWA guys were should have done some voiceovers after to cover that up. Was shown on the famous KTMA where they shot the early MST3Ks? I also noticed the guy in the front rown wearing on of those REPREHENSIBLE "Maggie Sucks Bart's Dick" bootleg Simpsons shirts. Did he really think he was cool? Was there even ONE woman anywhere near Roper's that would go home with him? I'll bet a thousand dollars that guy went home, watched one of the lesser, more obscure Ilsa films while beating his half-drunk, limp dick. Oh yeah, I almost forgot (since that guy in the front row just PISSED me off) is that had I known about this tape, I would have locked Jerry Jarrett in a small room and DEMAND he bring these two to Memphis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravJ1979 Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Good stuff. Commentary was difficult to hear, but I think one of them said that Waltman doesn't drink or do drugs. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 The date on this match is actually 4/18/91, so I'm going to move this topic to the appropriate folder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Waltman's dive off of the top into just a sea of people is fantastic (he was definitely touching the ceiling), and his jawing/pushing around the crowd to set it up is great. Lynn nearly gansos himself on that rana that actually sets up a nearfall for the Kid. The commentary is so proto-2000s indie that it's actually awesome. Lynn is definitely less crisp than Waltman at this point, but it works in his favor on that brutal-looking tilt-a-whirl headscissors. God, that ceiling is so low (again, another slight enhancer, because it makes the missed guillotine seem more organic because Lynn couldn't stand completely straight when he dove). Steiner bulldog! Kid going nuts after the match because he couldn't fully kick out is great and a perfect way to keep the ball rolling with the feud. The pre-WWF matches that show Waltman as the first true indie star of the post-territory days are so good that they're almost depressing because of how much he and his reputation as a performer plummeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garretta Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 What disc of the '90 Yearbook is this on? I skipped over it when I did the '90 Yearbook because I wanted to watch it in its proper context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garretta Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 The match itself was tremendous, definitely the American junior match of the decade so far. But what struck me more than the moves in the ring was Waltman's excellent character work for his age. At eighteen, he plays a combination of immature hothead and sadistic son of a bitch better than most guys twice his age do. Put that together with his obvious athletic and wrestling abilities and you wonder exactly why we're talking about him in terms of what could have been rather than what was. Unfortunately, his future career gives us our answer. I pity the poor suckers who had to follow this. With the advent of ECW and the general advancement of the business, this is hardly a contender for Greatest Match Ever, or even Greatest American Indy Match Ever. But it was unlike most of what was being done in 1991, especially in this country, and whoever was on next had to know that they couldn't begin to even think about topping this. I wonder if that knowledge loosened them up as performers or caused them to press too hard and make mistakes. I also wonder if Waltman and Lynn got heat from the rest of the boys for being, in essence, too good for their own good. I wish we could have heard the commentary more clearly. Certainly Karch and his partner were overselling this more than a little, but I think their shock at seeing some of these moves and maneuvers was genuine, considering how rare a brawl like this was at the time, certainly among junior heavyweights in an independent setting. That genuineness (if that's a word) is what saves me from calling the commentary completely over the top and obnoxious, although Karch's partner almost stepped over the line a time or two. What a shame we didn't get this version of Waltman in the WWF or WCW. If we had, he'd be a legitimate candidate for Wrestler of the Decade. As it is, I'm just glad to see that on at least a few nights at a smoky bar in Minneapolis, Sean Waltman was among the best workers in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 #307 This was great. Indie wrestling from 1991. Looked a bit like Fight Club. Would have loved to have seen Pillman work in this setting in 1991. That would have been mind blowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKWebb Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 http://placetobenation.com/countdown-top-500-matches-of-the-90s-350-301/2/ #307 Liked this a lot when I ran across it in the YB. Waltmen talked a little bit about his matches with Jerry at this time when he was on Talk is Jericho podcast not too long ago. These matches, and their reputation, are part of what helped him get on the WWF radar. Jericho said he heard about them when these matches were going on, and all the guys talked about how great they were. Waltmen said Wade Keller was a big part of the word about him and Jerry getting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawho5 Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 Great match with annoying commentary. These two DO deserve a shot somewhere though. These two in USWA would have been fucking outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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