puropotsy Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 On Episode 15, Dylan and I celebrate the history of black wrestlers in honor of Black History Month. Except for Ernie Ladd who we forgot about. Wrestling Culture Episode 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Airballing on Ernie Ladd is criminal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Only 35 mins into the Black Month one and, as ever, top-drawer stuff once again chaps. I have a question / comment on the Butch Reed stuff though: was he ever rated as a worker or even "a good hand" back in the day? He seems to me like one of those guys whose rep has grown massively in the past 5 years, and specifically among fans like us. I don't know how good of a benchmark it is but, for example, the old (and extremely awesome) Death of the Territories mod for Total Extreme Wrestling 2008 -- seemingly made by smart fans with A. very good knowledge and B. generally accurate in gauging stats -- only rates his technical work in 1983 as an E grade. This roughly tallies, I think, with his rep among smart fans pre-DVDR project and *possibly* with his rep as a worker with bookers and other workers of the time. Are there any examples of a shoot interview where someone has really rated Butch Reed on the sort of level we rate him at today? Just throwing this out there really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think it's more of a case where the "modern" fan hasn't really ranked him until recently than it is that he wasn't well regarded at the time. I don't know that he was ever viewed as one of the best in the business, but going on stuff like old WONs and McAdam's tape comments, he was definitely well-regarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think it's more of a case where the "modern" fan hasn't really ranked him until recently than it is that he wasn't well regarded at the time. I don't know that he was ever viewed as one of the best in the business, but going on stuff like old WONs and McAdam's tape comments, he was definitely well-regarded. Also he had a relatively short run in WWF, somewhat faceless in a tag team with Doom then nothing really. So wasnt ever commercialised by the WWE Hall of Fame/Legends marketing channel. So his legend never really grew like say Mr. Perfect's did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puropotsy Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Surprised you guys didn't cover the Samoans on the Family ep, Rock kinda trumps Orton as the most famous/succesful 3rd gen guy of all time Dunno if it's something you have enough knowledge to cover but the multitude of lucha families would be cool to bring up if you ever do a part two as well. Oh and no, Debbie wasn't a real Malenko, she was just trained by them and took the name similar to Carl & Chad. OK, it's been a long day because I at first read this as you saying that you were surprised we didn't cover the Samoans in the Black history ep and I was going to discuss ethnic differences until I realized I was just dumb in how I read it. Ya, the two shows in a row at about 1 1/2 hours I got a call from my parents and due to circumstances I rarely get a chance to talk to Mom so I felt I should take the call. But yes, a Families V2 would be appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 OK, it's been a long day because I at first read this as you saying that you were surprised we didn't cover the Samoans in the Black history ep Oh, no no no, for that ep i'm surprised you guys didn't bring up King Mable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 No bullshit I was going to mention Big Vis and talk about how I think the backlash against him in 95 was disproportionately severe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 When I was putting the 1995 yearbook together, I was trying to get more Mabel on there because of his push but he deserved the criticism he got in proportion with his push. The guy sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Surprised that Thunderbolt Patterson didn't at least get a mention along with Ernie Ladd -- especially as you mentioned Iceman Parsons. Also Dylan, I don't know whether to do this here or make a thread for it, but I want to make a big list of wrestlers and get YOU to say whether you think HHH is better than them or not. A. It could be fun and B. I'd like to examine your claim that he's "average". I mean I have no great love for him at all, but "average" seems off to me and I want to put that vague feeling to the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I had a huge thread over at Classics where I ran down HHH's peak year v. the peak year of tons of other guys. It was spirited discussion for a while but finally broke down after the initial hundred names. Having said that feel free to start a similar thread in the regular wrestling forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 When I was putting the 1995 yearbook together, I was trying to get more Mabel on there because of his push but he deserved the criticism he got in proportion with his push. The guy sucked. The gimmick sucked. It also didn't help that he largely worked with limited wrestlers that couldn't carry him. It would have been interesting to see what Bret or Shawn could have got out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted March 6, 2012 Report Share Posted March 6, 2012 I thought Debbie was a fake! We would have gotten to the Samoans for sure but Dave had to cut things short. It's conceivable we could do a "families part two!" down the line as there were a lot of things we didn't get to. I'm still something of a Lucha novice, but I'm learning and would like to do a show about Lucha families down the road with someone who is more of an expert Looking over at lucha wiki, if you include those that married into it, the Brazo family is atleast 18 deep which has to be a record i'd think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 In the discussion of underutilization of Scorpio in ECW I think you overlook the way that Heyman knew that the NJ3+1 weren't going to be with him long. They were understood to be the equivalent of more roided guys in OVW, or tall guys in 90s USWA. You can't build around them since you know they can be taken any minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Only 35 mins into the Black Month one and, as ever, top-drawer stuff once again chaps. I have a question / comment on the Butch Reed stuff though: was he ever rated as a worker or even "a good hand" back in the day? He seems to me like one of those guys whose rep has grown massively in the past 5 years, and specifically among fans like us. I don't know how good of a benchmark it is but, for example, the old (and extremely awesome) Death of the Territories mod for Total Extreme Wrestling 2008 -- seemingly made by smart fans with A. very good knowledge and B. generally accurate in gauging stats -- only rates his technical work in 1983 as an E grade. This roughly tallies, I think, with his rep among smart fans pre-DVDR project and *possibly* with his rep as a worker with bookers and other workers of the time. Are there any examples of a shoot interview where someone has really rated Butch Reed on the sort of level we rate him at today? Just throwing this out there really. When you talk to fans of St Louis wrestling, Reed is talked about as a great worker. When you talk to fans of Florida wrestling, Reed is talked about as potentially great worker who didn't get alot of opportunities. When you talk to fans of Mid-South wrestling, Reed is talked about as a great worker. Wether accurate or not, St Louis, Florida and Mid-South are traditionally considered to be the places where fans were most work "smart"/most demanding of quality work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.