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#21 Matt D

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 09:42 AM

I watched a few of these and I am intrigued. Please humor my ignorance. How did it work? Were they calling spots in the ring?

#22 Loss

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 09:45 AM

I've read before that it was more that they just left themselves open during exchanges so they could be more back-and-forth. This is supposedly why some of the great workers have trouble transitioning well to shoots. Because instinctively, they leave themselves open.



#23 Tim Cooke

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 11:18 AM

Like Loss says, feeding the different body parts for transitions on the mat is a huge part of shoot style (and any style of pro wrestling really).  Tamura gets a cross arm breaker on Han, but leaves his left leg open, so Han can quickly seize a moment to grab the leg for an ankle lock to get out of the cross arm breaker.  Tamura then spins out of the ankle lock and gets back to his feet, so both guys can trade kicks and punches. 

 

As RINGS developed, it looked like there was more grappling/dojo matches for the body of the match, with only the finish and the amount of points being per-determined.  Meltzer says that the 12/21/96 Tamura vs. Yamamoto match was a work until the finish.  They were told to fill 10 minutes and after that, shoot for the finish.  Whether that's true or not for that specific match is debatable but you can definitely see that occur in 1997-1999 RINGS matches. 



#24 rzombie1988

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Posted 22 September 2014 - 11:36 AM

Not the greatest but he caught on very fast and was a good worker. His limited amount of matches hurts him as does the style(limited to shooty stuff and shorter matches) and his opposition(I like Andrei Kopylov more than anyone, but we aren't talking Kobashi here).

 

I also want to add that 99% of the wrestling population would have no interest in watching RINGS, which will hurt him big time.



#25 Parties

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 06:54 PM

Of the Han that I've seen (the stuff discussed here plus some arbitrary Youtube scouring), he def. makes my list. There are many shoot style workers I like more, but he's top 100 on mat prowess alone. I realize it's counterintuitive to a worked shoot in that you don't want to express emotion facially in an MMA fight, but from a wrestling lens I really preferred Han when he would show a little fire/frustration/enthusiasm. The Yamamoto match in July '98 is a good example of how he got more expressive over time and played to the crowds better in turn.



#26 Jimmy Redman

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 06:24 PM

It's a testament to Han that he's someone I got into almost immediately even though I have basically no time for shoot style. He opened the door for me to enjoy a style that I previously couldn't even sit through, and he gets a hell of a lot of credit for that from me.

 

Like Breaks he's a guy with almost immediate, universal appeal. Anyone who starts watching him can't help but be impressed, even if they previously had no concept of the style or context, or (like me) don't like the style. I think there's an argument that some guys get bumped up ahead of their contemporaries for essentially being gateway drugs (Aja Kong in particular, also Breaks), but I choose to see that as being a significant positive. It's not an easy thing to work a style, perhaps a niche or unfashionable one, and make it entertaining and universal enough that even people who are novices to, or actively dislike, that style can enjoy it...I feel like that's a real accomplishment as a worker. It's not a traditional one because wrestlers work in the moment and aren't thinking about randoms on the internet 20 years later when they wrestle, but at the same time, creating something that is timeless, something that transcends the time and place they are in, is special. And kind of necessary for the purposes of this list and the kind of things we do.



#27 RyanClingman

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 04:18 AM

It's a testament to Han that he's someone I got into almost immediately even though I have basically no time for shoot style. He opened the door for me to enjoy a style that I previously couldn't even sit through, and he gets a hell of a lot of credit for that from me.

 

Like Breaks he's a guy with almost immediate, universal appeal. Anyone who starts watching him can't help but be impressed, even if they previously had no concept of the style or context, or (like me) don't like the style. I think there's an argument that some guys get bumped up ahead of their contemporaries for essentially being gateway drugs (Aja Kong in particular, also Breaks), but I choose to see that as being a significant positive. It's not an easy thing to work a style, perhaps a niche or unfashionable one, and make it entertaining and universal enough that even people who are novices to, or actively dislike, that style can enjoy it...I feel like that's a real accomplishment as a worker. It's not a traditional one because wrestlers work in the moment and aren't thinking about randoms on the internet 20 years later when they wrestle, but at the same time, creating something that is timeless, something that transcends the time and place they are in, is special. And kind of necessary for the purposes of this list and the kind of things we do.

 

I agree with this. Han strikes me as shoot-style's answer to a Mysterio or Misawa, in that regardless of one's style preference, it is very difficult not to be impressed by his body of work and elite level performance.

 

On a slightly unrelated note, I have almost finished making my way through his entire match catalogue, and have ranked his matches from best to worst. I will post that ranking within the next few weeks. I have also seen all of his shoot fights, which are amazingly boring, but are important in demonstrating the fact that RINGS matches weren't just shoot fights with worked finishes, as many others have already mentioned in this thread. 



#28 GOTNW

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 05:24 PM

One thing I absolutely love about Han is the way he'll throw people around. He won't throw a bunch of suplexes or anything like that but he has these awesome wrist control takedowns that really do give the impression he is in complete control of the match. He'll get Armbared or Choked and then just lift the other guy up and Rampage Jackson him down. He absolutely has his spots but they are like Santo's dives in that you just can't get bored of them due to how beautiful they look and he has so many ways to work them into matches. One of my favourite things I saw him do was react to Mitsuya Nagai leglocking him by dragging him to the middle of the ring. Didn't even think to try to immediately counter it, let alone go for the rope break, he dragged him to the middle of the ring so he could be better positioned once he reversed it and locked in a submission of his own. I'm not sure there's anyone better in selling going down. He'll get hit with blows/kicks and fall so beautifully and convincingly it will change the flow of the match in an instant.



#29 shodate

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 01:23 PM

He should be  top 20 easy in my personal  list   he  number 4 of a time  i  watched an enjoyed all his matches iv seen     



#30 cactus

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 12:43 PM

Volk Han's fantastic, no doubt. I wouldn't call him the best wrestler of all time as he didn't have that many matches and he never ventured outside of shoot style. I want my GOATs to be versatile.



#31 shodate

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 01:51 PM

Volk Han's fantastic, no doubt. I wouldn't call him the best wrestler of all time as he didn't have that many matches and he never ventured outside of shoot style. I want my GOATs to be versatile.

how  many workers can   you have seen  100% of there matches  ad  they have never had a match under  ****   and  realism  trumps  versatility  100% of the time    to many  people who finshed above him show  ot mean  strings in there work  epaclly in there  mart work  and or  strikes 



#32 cactus

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 04:45 PM

 

Volk Han's fantastic, no doubt. I wouldn't call him the best wrestler of all time as he didn't have that many matches and he never ventured outside of shoot style. I want my GOATs to be versatile.

how  many workers can   you have seen  100% of there matches  ad  they have never had a match under  ****   and  realism  trumps  versatility  100% of the time    to many  people who finshed above him show  ot mean  strings in there work  epaclly in there  mart work  and or  strikes 

 

 

I couldn't say that for anyone even Volk Han. He's never had a bad match, but I could probably make that case for Bret Hart and he certainly isn't the greatest in my book either.

 

I disagree on the realism trumps versatility point. Volk Han does shoot style brilliantly, but I would rather watch a Kobashi/Funk/Danielson match over his 9/10 because I can expect something different in most matches.



#33 DR Ackermann

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 06:07 PM

Of course it's subjective and somewhat besides the point but its pretty wild to say that Bret Hart of all people never had a bad match. I think Bret Hart is probably the most overrated guy ever, but even so he has his fair share of nondescript, nothing-happening matches as well as bad ones. I think even his supporters could point to examples of matches where he didn't care cause it wasn't important in his eyes so he didn't try.

#34 shodate

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 06:14 PM

 

 

Volk Han's fantastic, no doubt. I wouldn't call him the best wrestler of all time as he didn't have that many matches and he never ventured outside of shoot style. I want my GOATs to be versatile.

how  many workers can   you have seen  100% of there matches  ad  they have never had a match under  ****   and  realism  trumps  versatility  100% of the time    to many  people who finshed above him show  ot mean  strings in there work  epaclly in there  mart work  and or  strikes 

 

 

I couldn't say that for anyone even Volk Han. He's never had a bad match, but I could probably make that case for Bret Hart and he certainly isn't the greatest in my book either.

 

I disagree on the realism trumps versatility point. Volk Han does shoot style brilliantly, but I would rather watch a Kobashi/Funk/Danielson match over his 9/10 because I can expect something different in most matches.

 

nope realism  helo  buy into the work  what does verrslity do   



#35 cactus

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 09:13 AM

Of course it's subjective and somewhat besides the point but its pretty wild to say that Bret Hart of all people never had a bad match. I think Bret Hart is probably the most overrated guy ever, but even so he has his fair share of nondescript, nothing-happening matches as well as bad ones. I think even his supporters could point to examples of matches where he didn't care cause it wasn't important in his eyes so he didn't try.

 

Bret Hart was the first guy that came to mind. I've never seen him in a bad match. He doesn't have as many great matches as guy like Kobashi or Han, but he could carry a broom to solid, serviceable match and I think that's why he's seen as great.

 

 

 

 

Volk Han's fantastic, no doubt. I wouldn't call him the best wrestler of all time as he didn't have that many matches and he never ventured outside of shoot style. I want my GOATs to be versatile.

how  many workers can   you have seen  100% of there matches  ad  they have never had a match under  ****   and  realism  trumps  versatility  100% of the time    to many  people who finshed above him show  ot mean  strings in there work  epaclly in there  mart work  and or  strikes 

 

 

I couldn't say that for anyone even Volk Han. He's never had a bad match, but I could probably make that case for Bret Hart and he certainly isn't the greatest in my book either.

 

I disagree on the realism trumps versatility point. Volk Han does shoot style brilliantly, but I would rather watch a Kobashi/Funk/Danielson match over his 9/10 because I can expect something different in most matches.

 

nope realism  helo  buy into the work  what does verrslity do   

 

 

I prefer a mix of both. I need to believe in what they're selling obviously. I need more than that to call someone the greatest of all time though.



#36 shodate

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 10:26 AM

 

Of course it's subjective and somewhat besides the point but its pretty wild to say that Bret Hart of all people never had a bad match. I think Bret Hart is probably the most overrated guy ever, but even so he has his fair share of nondescript, nothing-happening matches as well as bad ones. I think even his supporters could point to examples of matches where he didn't care cause it wasn't important in his eyes so he didn't try.

 

Bret Hart was the first guy that came to mind. I've never seen him in a bad match. He doesn't have as many great matches as guy like Kobashi or Han, but he could carry a broom to solid, serviceable match and I think that's why he's seen as great.

 

 

 

 

Volk Han's fantastic, no doubt. I wouldn't call him the best wrestler of all time as he didn't have that many matches and he never ventured outside of shoot style. I want my GOATs to be versatile.

how  many workers can   you have seen  100% of there matches  ad  they have never had a match under  ****   and  realism  trumps  versatility  100% of the time    to many  people who finshed above him show  ot mean  strings in there work  epaclly in there  mart work  and or  strikes 

 

 

I couldn't say that for anyone even Volk Han. He's never had a bad match, but I could probably make that case for Bret Hart and he certainly isn't the greatest in my book either.

 

I disagree on the realism trumps versatility point. Volk Han does shoot style brilliantly, but I would rather watch a Kobashi/Funk/Danielson match over his 9/10 because I can expect something different in most matches.

 

nope realism  helo  buy into the work  what does verrslity do   

 

 

I prefer a mix of both. I need to believe in what they're selling obviously. I need more than that to call someone the greatest of all time though.

 

why i like rings   do not see the strings  nearly as much   






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