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Negro Casas


Grimmas

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Casas will probably be my #1 this time (up from #3 last time) and I want to do the week-to-week examination of him that Loss brings up in this thread. Not because I think I'll have much of anything to say about him that hasn't already, but because he's fucking awesome and that feels like a fun way to spend my time watching the pro-wrestling. 

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The only lucha guy that made me overcome my struggles with commentary everytime because he was so damn good. Still feel like I have a ton to keep catching up with his work. Really looking forward seeing if he can end up as a n°1 candidate for me once I have a more rounded look at him and not just cherry picking like I did last time.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/28/2021 at 9:10 AM, soup23 said:

Overall, it gives me more comfort in concluding stuff that "Casas took a back seat in trios for the most part in 2001 up until June and wasn't given opportunities to shine".  That is compared to some generalized statements you see and I am guilty of as "Imagine how great Casas 1986 was if we had weekly footage."  That is possibly the case that the footage would show that but it isn't definite. In the above where Casas has been in the background in 2001 so far, I think this is where my barometer is more strict compared to someone like Matt where I would penalize Casas for that and say even though he didn't get the opportunities, I do expect more for someone still in their general athletic prime than a top 80 performance as WOTY.  This is an extreme case but Casas is someone bantered about as a #1 contender too so I do believe he will be someone with increased scrutiny.

@soup23 Can you give me some examples of these. I'd like to see them. Usually, even in trios matches where he's not at all the focus, I think that Casas is entertaining and engaging and serves a lot of purposes within the match. He almost always does something new or different in them too. I'm curious if that might just be when he's a rudo though.

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2/23/01 Casas/Plata/Juvy vs Satanico/Ultimo Guerrero/Black Warrior

Most important part of this match by a metric ton is Satanico and Guerrero conflict but Casas is just a guy in the match. Sure the strikes are fine but he gets powerbombed by Guerrero and that is about it. Seeing Porky and Juvy in this setting is a distant second fun thing in this match. 
 

5/13/01 Monterrey Dandy/Satanico/Panther/Bestia Salvaje vs   Casas/Parka/Brazo de Plata/Antifaz

This match would be a good case for perhaps differing opinion. Dandy and Casas work the mat for a while as an original pairing. It’s most certainly good. However, the match kicks up a notch imo when Parka moves on to mixing it up with Dandy. This leaves Casas having a few sequences with Panther but only giving a slight taste at something more between those two. 
 

6/10/01 vs Antifaz 

Longer singles match where by end the Heat was again on Dandy as opposed to Casas. 
 

vs Santo 6/9 Tijuana

 

Watched this yesterday and will give praise. Casas is Rudo and this felt very “our Champions Carnival League” style match between these two. 
 

I want to iterate that Casas isn’t bad in any of the stuff I have seen in 2001 but that I would struggle to think of a great match that has occurred because of him and I’ve watched 20 matches of his so far at this point. He’s still a top 100 wrestler of 2001 but it again feels hollow for someone that when compared to other potential #1 candidates where we have the footage of them in their prime years, I don’t see as many baseline performances. 

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The only times Casas is given something to do in 2000-02 is the Wagner program that we don't see because of the Olympics and every time Santo returns and they re-ignite the Guerrero & Bucanero feud. The rest of the time he's treading water. It makes sense after they ran Santo & Casas vs. Bestia & Scorpio into the ground, but at no point does Casas wow you in that secondary role. I just reached the point where Santo left again and the focus switched from Ultimo vs. Santo to Ultimo vs. Casas, and it's been a real letdown. There are a few positives. He adapted to the new style of wrestling well, and it makes sense that Santo and Casas are the team to consistently feud with Ultimo and Rey over the tag titles since they can work the modern style. I particularly like some of his strike exchanges around this time. But there are a few myths that need destroying, namely "Casas is brilliant in every match" and "Casas was the best in the world for every year of his career." Not true. He had runs like every other headliner. Ultimately, it's not going to matter to voters because they'll vote for the highs, and Casas' highs are all-time genius level, but I completely agree with Chad on this. 

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I voted Negro Casas 15th in 2016 and I think I nailed that one. Casas is clearly an all time great and a #1 candidate, but I've never connected with him as much as like Santo or Terry Funk or someone else i might rank above him. Comfortably in the top 20. I could see myself ranking him in the top 5 or somewhere in this range. Everyone Ill have in my top 20 is someone I think about as a top 5 performer. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Casas was my number 3 in 2016, but he's my current frontrunner for number 1 next time. He has the incredible longevity. He has the incredible peak, where at his best he was as good as anybody I've ever seen. He has the incredible matches. He has the incredible performances. He can brawl, work the mat, carry a match with his otherworldly presence and charisma. I don't need him to be amazing or the best guy in *every* match he's in -- I've seen him be amazing and the best guy in *enough* matches he's in to be okay putting him number 1. He's in my MOTD for two separate decades, twenty years apart, with one of them being my #1 match of all time, and in a third decade his best match would be around my top 5. The more random 90s CMLL TV that pops up on YouTube his case is only bolstered to me. To Soup's point about him slipping into the background a bit in 2001, well, I can't really argue that because I haven't gone through that stuff and don't know how I would even go about it, but if you asked me to watch every bit of footage from a wrestler who happens to be on a down year then I wouldn't have a problem with doing that with Casas. A phenomenal pro wrestler and right now I'd call him the GOAT. 

 

NEGRO CASAS YOU SHOULD WATCH: 

w/Blue Panther v El Hijo del Santo & Eddie Guerrero (Juarez, 1987)

v El Hijo del Santo (Los Angeles, 7/18/87)

w/Blue Panther & Fuerza Guerrera v El Hijo del Santo, Yoshinari Asai & Gran Hamada (WWA, 1990)

v El Hijo del Santo (WWA, 5/17/91)

w/Dr Wagner Jr. & Rambo v Silver King, Gran Hamada & El Texano (UWA, 2/29/92)

v El Dandy (CMLL, 7/3/92)

w/El Felino & Bestia Salvaje v Ultimo Dragon, Ciclon Ramirez & Oro (CMLL, 3/12/93)

v Ultimo Dragon (CMLL, 3/26/93) 

w/Sangre Chicana & Mocho Cota v Ringo Mendoza, Silver King & Ultimo Dragon (CMLL, 3/4/94)

w/El Dandy & Hector Garza v El Hijo del Santo, Bestia Salvaje & Scorpio Jr. (CMLL, 11/29/96)

v El Hijo del Santo (CMLL, 9/19/97)

w/Mr. Niebla & Atlantis v El Hijo del Santo, Blue Panther & Black Warrior (CMLL, 4/24/98)

w/El Hijo del Santo v Bestia Salvaje & Scorpio Jr. (CMLL, 3/19/99)

w/El Hijo del Santo v Rey Bucanero & Ultimo Guerrero (CMLL, 11/2/01)

v Blue Panther (CMLL, 4/24/11)

v Blue Panther (CMLL, 3/2/12)

w/Stuka Jr. & Valiente v Virus, Fuego & Vangellys (CMLL, 6/14/13)

w/Terrible & Shocker v Rush, Maximo & Rey Escorpion (CMLL, 6/28/13)

w/Blue Panther & Atlantis v Negro Navarro, Black Terry & Solar (CMLL, 8/16/13)

v Rush (CMLL, 11/22/13)

v Titan (CMLL, 1/3/14)

w/Barbaro Cavernario & Dragon Lee v Virus, Hechicero & Cachorro (CMLL, 5/23/14) 

v Dragon Lee (CMLL, 5/22/15)

w/Kamaitachi & Gran Guerrero v Dragon Lee, Stuka Jr. & Volador Jr. (CMLL, 2/19/16)

v Aramis (Lucha Memes, 3/11/18)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Casas was #4 for me in 2016 and, looking back, that was way too high. A charismatic, skilled, versatile wrestler with incredible longevity but I'm having trouble finding truly great Casas matches that don't involve Santo in some way, particularly singles bouts. I still need to check out some of the trios KB8 has listed above and re-watch some other stuff (like the Hechicero match from 4/2016) but the lack of non-Santo output could limit the ceiling.

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  • 6 months later...

That particular trios was the week after their Grand Prix Tournament match where Casas fouled Santo. It led to their match on the Anniversary show that Casas won by DQ. Santo disappeared for a while after the Anniversary Show and came back for the rudo turn. The Grand Prix match is on YouTube, but AFAIK, the Anniversary show match isn't on tape. 

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There's another similar trios with almost the same level of hatred between the two (intermixed by terribad workers, as well). I need to give it a think but I'm almost positive I watched it many years back while on a Rayo kick. 

That is pretty much my problem with Santo/Casas. They build up their stuff so well but the payoffs fall flat. It's a high ceiling sure, and I love the uncooperative/semi-violent matwork, but it isn't the level you're expecting. 

 

I think both have better opponents (Santo: Panther/Park and Casas: Panther). Not that I'd ever complain having to watch one of their matches, mind. I got a hold of a match of theirs from Juarez and it is mind bogglingly good stuff. 

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  • 1 year later...

Normally I don't care how a guy looks twenty years past his prime, but for someone like Casas I felt I owed his later work at least a superficial look. I never saw him really impose his will on the new style. Instead he just tried his best to do Negro Casas within the context of 2010s CMLL, which sometimes had a big effect and sometimes didn't. Volador Jr. vs Negro Casas from 2016 was just a Volador Jr. match featuring Negro Casas. Titan vs Negro Casas from 2013 organically went from competitive wrestling and brawling to dramatic reversals and nearfalls in a way that not a lot of modern CMLL matches do. And Blue Panther vs Casas was a great match, this coming from someone who doesn't get that excited about 21st century wrestling or Blue Panther matches in general. That basically redefined what a hair vs hair match could be, even if it doesn't seem to have had any lasting effect. Maybe more importantly it had me wondering if Titan is a strong worker in the new style and if maybe Panther peaked as an old man with no mask. That's when you know the work is good, when it actually gets you interested in the other guy in the match. Casas having two matches that impressed me like that while in his fifties and working a style I don't like counts as a success in my book.

Younger Casas:
Casas, Arandu and Cien Caras vs Centurion Negro, Black Magic and Panterita del Ring
Casas, Espectro Jr. and Espectro de Ultratumba vs Dandy, Mano Negra and Ringo Mendoza
Casas, Fiera and Bestia Salvaje vs Dandy, Ringo Mendoza and Ultimo Dragon
Casas, Bestia Salvaje and Felino vs Ultimo Dragon, Dandy and Blue Demon Jr.
Casas, Emilio Charles Jr. and Mano Negra vs Oro, Brazo and Ultimo Dragon
Casas vs Fiera
Casas vs Great Sasuke

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