Chris Hero

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[soup23]

Bordering on my list depending in how well I like his Indy run. One thing I think he does have in his corner is high variety of opponents from arik Cannon to Eddie Kingston. He also anchored CZW, PWG, IWA-MS, and Chikara at different points.

[Timbo Slice]

Don't think I can put him on there. He'll be in the mix, but off the top of my head, he's not a shoe-in.

[stomperspc]

Bordering on my list depending in how well I like his Indy run. One thing I think he does have in his corner is high variety of opponents from arik Cannon to Eddie Kingston. He also anchored CZW, PWG, IWA-MS, and Chikara at different points.

 

His current indy run has disappointed me some. I thought he had a strong start to the year. His match versus Ricochet in EVOLVE and his matches versus Cole and Styles in ROH I liked but have had trouble getting into a lot of his stuff since then. I enjoyed both heel Hero and "2001 era IWA-MS mat wrestling" Hero far more than "heavy striker" Hero. Unfortunately, we've gotten more of the latter in this the latest indie run of his. All of his matches start off reasonably well bust some descend into a never-ending barrage of odd striking that just kill the stretch runs for me (see the Reed Bentley IWA-MS matches, wXw matches, ect.). I am not sure if he is really in the conversation for me in terms of top 100, but in general I am a moderate fan of his.

[concrete1992]

There's a lot of good wrestlers that have performed. Hero is one of them.

[Shining Wiz]

Unlikely to be on my ballot. Have seen a ton of Hero, and he is definitely good, and probably has the potential to be better, but he almost never blew me away in spite of being the kind of guy I would usually enjoy and having almost always been in the right position for me to enjoy him.

[goodhelmet]

I have seen 3 MOTYCs with Hero on the card out of seeing him in 5 matches live. I really enjoyed his Indy run pre-WWE and the few times he was allowed to shine in NXT. Not a lock but not off the list.

[Ditch]

To me, the frustrating thing about Chris Hero is that he was capable of looking world-class wrestling in gyms for IWA:MS and PWG once he really tightened things up and got in shape, but then in ROH and NOAH he had a tendency to get goofy and scticky. How can someone drag Arik Cannon to so many really good matches, or go through a murderous war with Low Ki in front of like 400 people, then get on a bigger stage and do comedy? What helped drive this home was the crowd reaction to his 2009 match with Go Shiozaki. He brought the A-game and got over despite having left a middling impression on previous tours. And there were some good ROH performances. But, man, I think he could easily have a solid top 100 resume if he'd approached NOAH and ROH differently.

 

I join Goodhelmet in having him on the bubble. Too many great performances not to give him a good look despite what I said above.

[2PhoneShawty]

I think he has the best chance of the 2000s indy guys who aren't Danielson, Punk, Joe. He was good on the indies before he got to NXT, was one of the best workers in NXT when he was around, and has some pretty impressive tag work with Claudio, and even his team with Cabana hasn't been bad in NOAH.

[Badlittlekitten]

Chubby nerd.

[Jetlag]

Of all the chubby indy nerds he's the best. Like Punk he benefits a lot from being brought up in IWA Mid South around guys like Bull Pain and Tracy Smothers. It gave him a serious advantage in instincts. Unlike someone like Cesaro he was good as a chubby nerd and he wasn't afraid to try different things. His last man standing match with Eddie Kingston is a really great mid 2000s indy take on an 80s arena brawl. His performance in CZW vs. RoH cage of death was picture perfect. When he changed his look to something more polished he started carrying himself in a different way in order to get heel heat, as in "he dropped his vinyl pants! he's betraying indy wrestling!" It added a nice different note to his matches, as people really wanted to see Necro Butcher beat the piss out of this brat and splash blood on his fancy new gear. I give him a ton of credit for having awesome matches in many different environments and with opponents like Hidaka, Togo, or Martin Stone that he never met before. In some way he's the bizarro Danielson. His WWE run not working out may be his demise for this list, but his indy performances since then has been a lot of fun and I love the fact that he is a lot more over in NOAH now that he got fat.

[Childs]

Wrestling was better when guys who looked like Hero were allowed to be stars. Really, does he look any worse than 1989 Barry Windham?

[El McKell]

Wrestling was better when guys who looked like Hero were allowed to be stars. Really, does he look any worse than 1989 Barry Windham?

Now? Yes he does.

But in 2010 he looked better than 1989 Barry Windham.

[BillThompson]

I think he still looks fine now. People make too big of a deal about the gut. As long as he can still go, I don't care. 2015 Hero is one of the best wrestlers in the world, thus I don't care how much weight he's put on.

[Badlittlekitten]

Wrestling was better when guys who looked like Hero were allowed to be stars. Really, does he look any worse than 1989 Barry Windham?

Hero wouldn't have been a star in any period. The gut is awful but if he had something about him he'd get away with it. Instead Hero looks like a guy that what would look at the floor and cross the street if a group of teenagers were walking nearby. Old school guys like Windham, Murdoch, Rhodes etc carried themselves like stars. A charismatic dynamo, a gruff old cowboy and the leery geezer at the end of the bar you wouldn't want to mess with. Ever since the beginning Hero's had the worst look of any major(ish) star I can think of.

[2PhoneShawty]

 

Wrestling was better when guys who looked like Hero were allowed to be stars. Really, does he look any worse than 1989 Barry Windham?

Hero wouldn't have been a star in any period. The gut is awful but if he had something about him he'd get away with it. Instead Hero looks like a guy that what would look at the floor and cross the street if a group of teenagers were walking nearby. Old school guys like Windham, Murdoch, Rhodes etc carried themselves like stars. A charismatic dynamo, a gruff old cowboy and the leery geezer at the end of the bar you wouldn't want to mess with. Ever since the beginning Hero's had the worst look of any major(ish) star I can think of.

 

I think you're being really hard on him. He showed tons of charisma in his days in NXT.

[funkdoc]

pol said he thinks "fat fat" is a better look for hero than "skinny fat" and i'm inclined to agree. still doesn't have the vibe of a murdoch or hansen though. kevin steen is obv a lot closer to that but i've seen people bash even him as looking like the guy running your local comic book shop. think the "indie" label colors people's perception of these things to some degree

[BillThompson]

For the most part we've reached a day and age where people realize the probability that the geek behind the counter in glasses can kick anyone's ass. Look shouldn't matter anywhere near as much anymore simply because we have so many examples of people who are outside the formerly accepted look who do in fact kick ass.

[Loss]

Plus, if Baba-era All Japan was a thing right now, he'd hire Hero and push him as his top foreigner.

[Badlittlekitten]

For the most part we've reached a day and age where people realize the probability that the geek behind the counter in glasses can kick anyone's ass. Look shouldn't matter anywhere near as much anymore simply because we have so many examples of people who are outside the formerly accepted look who do in fact kick ass.

Beyond the WWF there's always been guys breaking the mold and being accepted no matter their look. My problem with Hero is that he has no charisma, middling mic skills at best and I'm never sold that he can kick anyone's arse. There's a world of difference between him and say Owen's or Punk.

[WingedEagle]

Hero was seeking a job with the premier employer in his industry. They have certain standards for how they want applicants to present themselves. If I go on a job interview I'll also need to dress the part if I want a shot. If he can't look the way they want or convince management to overlook that because of his other skills then he's where he belongs right now.

[Loss]

This thread is really interesting because it shows that the whole idea of WWE being so overly fixated on physical appearance isn't something that stems entirely from their own biases. Body shaming of any kind sucks, even when the victim of it is a pro wrestler. It's hypocritical to get on WWE's case about never giving full backing to Daniel Bryan while making disparaging comments about Hero's appearance. The fact that people care so much about someone looking like they are tough while at the same time talking about wrestling with zero pretenses that it's real is a contradiction that makes no sense. Stan Lane's toupee in Smoky Mountain Wrestling is a far more egregious and distracting thing to undermine someone who is supposed to be taken seriously than any wrestler being too short, skinny, fat or whatever else. Fans caring so much about body type is the same kind of thing that leads to Missy Hyatt's body dysmorphia and Eddy Guerrero's death. You'd think people would learn to let go of that when Chris Benoit killed his son in part because his brain was fried from years of drug abuse because simply being good at his craft wasn't enough for wrestling fans or decision makers. I'm sick of this defeatist idea that it's what Vince wants out of wrestling and nothing can change that. That may be the case, but just accepting it and then gleefully performing your own role in such a destructive system is just as bad.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to get on a soapbox here, but it just sort of happened.

[El-P]

I agree with your main point and WWE's ridiculous obsessions with body (and it's even worst with female, let us all remind the fact that Molly Holly had a "fat ass" and that Mickie James was downright "fat", which is legit insane sounding), but there's clearly a diffence between looking like Daniel Bryan, who's perfectly fit and looks like an athlete in shape, and looking like this :

 

 

(I'm not quite sure what to make of that "body shaming" stuff though, I'm afraid I might not exactly with the whole concept, but that's another matter entirely I guess)

[Loss]

It's a different type of outside-the-norm look, but attitudes toward both are symptoms of the same disease.

[El-P]

On 8/2/2015 at 6:30 PM, Loss said:

It's a different type of outside-the-norm look,

 

Hum… I respectfully disagree. Hero's look is not "outside the norm". He's sadly very representative of something that's slowly becoming a norm in occidental countries. And he's what, 35 ? I mean…

 

And don't get me wrong, I always enjoyed fat wrestlers, but he doesn't look like a "fat" wrestler. I mean, at least dress up the part like Dreamer did all his career. It's pro-wrestling, you're projecting an image out there. I doubt the "skinny-but-fat" look works in 2015. Thats' not even talking about the health issues coming up.