Christian

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Grimmas]

I wasn't super into Christian until he returned to the WWE as a babyface and really took off. I think he's legit one of the top 3 babyface wrestlers of the last 7 years.

 

From the way he claps during the comebacks to the unique way he'd hit his offense he was really great.

 

Not to mention he pulled off an awesome series of matches with Randy Orton, when Randy was super boring.

[Timbo Slice]

ECW run was terrific. He always worked hard. Was one of the reasons why I stuck with TNA as long as I did. The one problem I have is that he seems like an empty .300 hitter for me. Someone with little pop, doesn't draw too many walks. He's got a sustained amount of being good, but I don't think he has the high-end stuff to put himself over the top and onto a list like this.

[concrete1992]

Goodness. This is a total wildcard type guy for me right now cause I remember loving so much of his stuff when it was happening but I've changed so much since I've watched that I have no idea how some of it holds up. He gets a pretty good ladder match out of friggin' Kazarian (might have been being a weirdo and going by Kaz) and from my recollection it was essentially the Christian show. I think his TNA run will be a bit of the decider. Remember him being a top heel being darn good. Granted that might be some rose colored glasses. Probably one of the guys I'm most looking forward to revisiting to be honest.

[goodhelmet]

I enjoy post TNA Christian but pre-TNA Christian isn't somebody I would go out of my way to watch and it isn't a style I really care for. Too any other WWE guys I would rather watch.

[Dylan Waco]

Christian gets huge points for me for three things:

 

1. He was really, really consistent. It's an odd comparison for several reasons, but I actually liken him to Arn Anderson in the sense that you could argue he never really had a bad period in his career, and even though he wasn't pushed at the tip, top level, he did get chances to show what he could do in meaningful matches and settings.

 

2. He is a rare guy who's TNA case helps him. It's not so much that he was great in TNA, but he worked hard there, and did produce solid matches in a setting where very few guys excelled, and almost everyone - even good workers - dramatically declined or produced at a weaker level than they did before hand (at least eventually).

 

3. You could make a serious case for him as the best in the world in 2009, which was also a year where he was working as sort of bizarro-ace role, and having good-to-great long matches on a weekly basis against a who's who of random guys. Some might say that it didn't mean as much to be the best in the world that year, and honestly Christian would probably not be my top pick for that year, but it's hard to argue strongly against him and that's a year when IWRG was great, and Rey was incredible.

 

He also wins points for me because his body part selling is really good, and even though his offense is sort of odd and can be really telegraphed at times, I think he generally does a good job mixing in signature spots, which he has a large variety of.

 

Oddly enough what hurts him is the same thing that hurts a guy like Regal in the eyes of many - he's seen as a guy who either A. doesn't have any "true" great matches (I think this is bullshit but...) or B. because of the level of the push and his stardom he seems like a strange guy to vote for because he never had the marquee matches a lot of people favor for polls like this. Even in my case I admit that I hadn't thought a ton about him for this, but when I really think about the scope of his career, and how high I think his peak was, I really feel like if he had the exact same career in the 80's or 90's I would see him as a no brainer. I definitely need to think about him more

[Goodear]

Christian seemed to mature kind of late and needed that TNA main event run to learn how to put his character together. He really came alive the higher he got on the card, I think his ECW title run was his best work with good stuff against a variety of people including Swagger and Ryder if memory serves. I really liked his face character that went to the top rope about 7 times a match which wouldn't be my normal pattern but I think it worked for him as he didn't have the stuff to go toe-to-toe with really anyone and wasn't so quick he could out-speed guys.

[DylanZero]

Timbo made a great comparison to an empty .300 hitter for Christian. (Lets just call him the later years Michael Young of wrestling)

 

The things that help his case are the versatility he's shown as well as his consistency as a TV worker through years and years of it. He's been good as a crazy spotfest worker in the TLC days. He was delivering constant good TV performances vs the likes of Shelton & Jericho in the '04 era. He was doing good work as both a heel and babyface in TNA whether he was carrying Kaz, doing very good stuff vs Joe, or teaming with Rhino vs MCMG. ECW had a lot of gems in it and was a great example of good booking helping an already great wrestler with stuff vs Shelton, Tatsu, even Ryder & Ezekiel. Then on to the highly praised stuff that everybody knows about. He's done about everything you can think of and done it well.

 

All things considered including his longevity he's a contender for a bottom-tier rank as of now, pre re-evaluating his earlier work.

[TannerT]

Christian holds a special place with me, because you are almost always guaranteed a good match when he is out there. Just in the past three years he has had good-great matches with Henry, Sheamus and Bryan and also with lesser guys like OG Sin Cara and Fandango. He won't finish high on my list, but I will definitely find a place for him somewhere.

[Lee Casebolt]

I can't figure out how I feel about Christian. The Arn Anderson comparison is apt in some ways, though one of my favorite things about Anderson is how all of his offense feels organic and credible and Christian has a lot of 90s-esque "what was that?" to his. The Attitude Era stuff I enjoyed at the time doesn't really hold up for me now, but that's about the only serious criticism of his work I can lay. What I've seen him do since is consistently good, though I need to review his '04-'09. He's high-end "solid hand" for me at the moment. I expect whatever he's in to be good, but I don't really look forward to seeing it.

[Matt D]

I really think 2009-2011 Christian might be the best 8 minutes and thirty seconds worker ever.

[Timbo Slice]

Do people think Christian was as good a TV worker during that time frame as Rey was beforehand or Sheamus was after the fact? Is he considered a bridge for best TV worker WWE had at the time?

[Dylan Waco]

I think Christian was what with Rey in 09/10. I would rate Rey higher, but I can't object to the notion of Christian over him for that period. You could argue Christian had the advantage because he was working in an isolated enclave with shows built around his title defenses for much of that run, but the flip side of that was that it was a third tier brand so it was at least theoretically more difficult to get people up for his matches.

 

What's less discussed is that I think Christian was really the heir to Matt Hardy doing the same thing the year before.

[goc]

I think Christian was what with Rey in 09/10. I would rate Rey higher, but I can't object to the notion of Christian over him for that period. You could argue Christian had the advantage because he was working in an isolated enclave with shows built around his title defenses for much of that run, but the flip side of that was that it was a third tier brand so it was at least theoretically more difficult to get people up for his matches.

 

What's less discussed is that I think Christian was really the heir to Matt Hardy doing the same thing the year before.

I do think he benefits from that period where guys like Hardy, Finlay & Mark Henry were having great matches and turning the perception of WWECW from "shitty ECW-lite" to "a viable 3rd brand and the bridge between developmental and Raw/Smackdown"

 

By the time Christian showed up in ECW, he got to miss most of the backlash of "yea but who cares ECW sucks" that the other guys were dealing with in 2008. Like, I think Matt Hardy was just as good in his ECW run as Christian but one of them is much more heavily pimped and better remembered than the other.

[GOTNW]

Maybe. He was my favourite TV worker from the moment he returned until his retirement, has a couple of high end singles matches, regularly carried lesser workers and I even enjoyed a lot of the stuff that precedes his TNA run.

[Matt D]

I think Christian was what with Rey in 09/10. I would rate Rey higher, but I can't object to the notion of Christian over him for that period. You could argue Christian had the advantage because he was working in an isolated enclave with shows built around his title defenses for much of that run, but the flip side of that was that it was a third tier brand so it was at least theoretically more difficult to get people up for his matches.

 

What's less discussed is that I think Christian was really the heir to Matt Hardy doing the same thing the year before.

 

This is problematic to me. I am ranking Rey highly for a similar thing on a slightly bigger stage. I imagine I will be the high vote on Christian (even if he's not in my top 30) for his role as Ace, primarily. I don't deny Dylan's point here, but I don't have Matt on my list currently.

[Dylan Waco]

I watched a bunch of 08 ECW several years back because a ton of it was up on Hulu. I believe Exposer watched a lot of it with me. I came away thinking that Hardy's run - while shorter than Christian's - was comparable in a variety of other ways. Similar sort of feel to the matches, similar range of opponents (Bam Neely to Mark Henry and all points in between). Christian sold better, and the best Christian matches from his run probably edge out the best Hardy stuff, but the roles were similar. I also think Christian's offensive approach, while very much logical, comes across less impactful than Hardy's.

[Jimmy Redman]

Yeah, I'd find it odd if someone liked Christian for his 2009 ECW ace run but didn't like Matt for doing basically the same thing the year before.

[Matt D]

It's been hugely validating to hear wrestlers (Orton, Dustin) come onto the Edge and Christian podcast and gush on how Christian was able to smartly and effectively change up things (moves/counters/etc.) in clever and logical ways on a week to week basis. That's one of those things where you wonder if you've been reading too much into the wrestling but no, it's intentional and something his peers think he's a downright genius at.

[Shrike02]

I am definitely looking forward to another E&C episode with Dustin as a featured guest. It's clear from this last week's episode that there is a lot of mutual respect. If I were to come up with a GWE list Christian and Goldust would definitely do very well.

[Witlon]

Wanted to get the 2021 discussion going here. I think he's a legit lock for my list. 

 I don't feel the Edge & Christian matches hold up as well as they should, but once they split up, it clicks really well. There's never any bad and it's always compelling on shows that don't have a ton of compelling stuff of them, especially the post-ECW PPV run, which had the great TV matches that were talked up in the past.

I'd recommend checking out...

- vs. Jack Swagger (Backlash 2009 & Judgment Day 2009). I'd consider these companion matches. Both are around 10 minutes, and I think they're great, and play off of each other well.

- vs. Shelton Benjamin (TLC 2009). Longer than most of his matches, and I know ladder matches are kinda contrived at this point, but this felt...different. 

- vs. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 2011). Christian working with a green, green worker and getting a good match by sheer force of will.

I remember liking one of the Orton matches, as well, but I can't recall which one (four PPV matches in three months tends to lead to that, unfortunately). And the title win ladder match against Del Rio is a pretty great moment if you're a fan. 

[simon]

Not an unquestionable and immortal lock, but someone who made it on a preliminary pre-cut draft and has a strong shot at the back half or back third. 

One of the best television match workers ever, with a formula that gets (or got) the most out of a lot of marginal or average talents (Swagger, Zeke, Burchill, Yoshi Tatsu, Ryder, Drew McIntyre, Kazarian, etc.). It's one that also always gets changed up in a little ways that keep it interesting, be that a new focus in repeat versions of a match up or the way he's so good at changing counters up and evolving the pairing in a real logical sort of way. A stellar big match worker too, there's rarely a Christian pay per view match of note after like 2003-4 or so that I would say failed to deliver, even if they're not all barnburners. With the return to the ring, he still might be a guy building his case for a few more years too. 

 

RECOMMENDATIONS: 

vs. Samoa Joe, TNA Destination X 2007 (3/11/2007)

vs. Drew McIntyre, WWE Smackdown (7/30/2010 & 8/20/2010)

vs. Randy Orton, WWE Over The Limit 2011 (5/22/2011)

vs. Alberto Del Rio, WWE SummerSlam 2013 (8/18/2013)

[Boss Rock]

Not sure where I stand on Christian yet, but I thought his recent match with Kazarian was really good.

[Shrike02]

I've always been a big fan of Christian and certainly hope he'll make my list. Very consistent worker who mastered the fundamentals of match psychology and I've always liked how he consistently sold throughout a match. If he got his arm worked over, he didn't forget to keep selling that body part later on.

I think the lack of any really top-end matches will hurt his ranking but again, he's got a very high floor and I don't think I've ever seen a bad performance from him.

I will also say that the E&C tag team was consistently funny with their mic work; Christian was the glue that kept the matches somewhat coherent.

[El Dragon]

Christian is in the all time “Input over Output” Mount Rushmore to me. If you are just ranking this by pure high end matches, Christian has no case to be made. He has the Orton series with is arguably the best thing Randy was ever part of, the Title Loss to Swagger, and and a bunch of good not great. But if you were watching him week to week during his ECW title run, you understand just how good he was. And if he can stay healthy for a run, he’ll remind you again. There is no worker I’m more convinced can still be good as his body breaks down then Christian, because his greatest asset is his brain. Mixing his spots up in clever ways that never feel scripted, building interesting dynamics match to match, all stuff I value significantly, and Christian is a fucking master at it. 
 

I need to deep dive his ECW Title run to illustrate how great he was at his element. A complete lock for my ballet, and hopefully we can get him just a few spots higher to that top 100 spot instead of just short.