The Man in Blak Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Yeah, I could see Flair/Funk/Danielson as the three in question and the top three overall with that many votes coming in. If anything, I see Bret having a decent shot at falling out of the top 50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 When Dylan said on Twitter that Bret was hovering around his top 75, I figured the Hitman had won the key swing states. (But Flair/Funk/Danielson makes sense too given that Bryan was said to be unanimous on ballots for quite a while.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 I think Flair is a much safer bet than Bret. For all the discussion he got it was a lot less "I'm not going to rank him" than "I'm not going to rank him in my top 3" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 I am reasonably confident and have been for some time that Flair will finish #1 when all is said and done. If Bryan finishes #1, I won't pretend that it wouldn't disappoint me tremendously, it would. Not really in terms of the relative merits of each guy, but more in terms of what it says about the overall community right now. I am an old-school fan and I've loved PWO primarily because it is the best place anywhere to discuss old-school wrestling in-depth. If Bryan finishes #1 over Flair, it's just a strong indication that the community is changing and moving away from that old-school focus. That's the thing I care about. I've never been any different. Cut me and I bleed old-school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 That is such a silly takeaway after so many people just spent months watching old footage they wouldn't otherwise have watched. It should not count against Bryan that he worked in the modern era any more than Flair should magically get extra credit for having his prime in the magical decade of the 80s. And I say that as someone who loves wrestling from the 80s WAY more than current wrestling. Hell I kinda even like Japanese wrestling from the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 I'm not debating it beyond that. The feeling is probably irrational, but It is what it is. See also Dylan's recent long post. I have hopes that the new 80s DVDR sets will kickstart that feeling of focus, but we'll see, I guess. On a separate note, aside from my weird feelings about the board slowly changing, just mathematically I would legit be shocked if Bryan finished #1, only because with Funk and Flair (and with anyone ranking Misawa), in the vast majority of cases even "low balling" them ends up with the top 10 finish. The lowest vote I've seen or heard for Flair in a list so far is #20. I think Bryan will have a lot of top 20 finishes, he was #16 on my list, and I've seen people lower than that, while Flair (and Funk and Misawa) will have a lot of top 10 and top 5 finishes. I just can't see Bryan getting enough #1 votes to see him over the line. Just my call if I was going to make an educated bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 It's all moot anyway because the only objectively correct #1 would be Jerry Lawler. And he's the proper bridge between modern and old school as he's the only old school guy still competing regularly and not in a very embarrassing fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Did you stick in a singles ballot in the end goc? I think Lawler will get enough #1 votes that he'll rank very well, but will probably also miss out on more ballots than the other big guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Did you stick in a singles ballot in the end goc? I think Lawler will get enough #1 votes that he'll rank very well, but will probably also miss out on more ballots than the other big guns. Yes. And yea I know Lawler has no shot at actually finishing #1 but that's where he was on MY ballot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 The lowest vote I've seen or heard for Flair in a list so far is #20. I had him quite a bit lower than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 When Dylan said on Twitter that Bret was hovering around his top 75, I figured the Hitman had won the key swing states. (But Flair/Funk/Danielson makes sense too given that Bryan was said to be unanimous on ballots for quite a while.) I don't know who these anonymous DK fanboys would be but me and El-P are huge Takada backers so he'll get two top 15 votes at least. I quoted the wrong post lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 I don't know who these anonymous DK fanboys would be but me and El-P are huge Takada backers so he'll get two top 15 votes at least. Nice feeling the love. BTW, I totally forgot to vote for Harley Race and Jun Akiyama. I also didn't vote for DiBiase, but I didn't forget to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 I had DK at #85 so he definitely has at least one voter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Workrate clinging dinosaur! How did Sayama do in the last one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 In the last one Sayama finished at 68, right above Dory and right below Dandy.And seeing as I hadn't posted in this thread the people who I think are heavy hitters who didn't make my list are Hashimoto, Fujiwara and Arn Anderson, I guess maybe Tully Blanchard could count too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Arn Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 You knew some people didn't have Arn, no reason why it shouldn't be me. Arn is good and clearly has a lot of talent but he so so rarely seems to actually use his cool bumping and stooging or his good (but kinda overrated) limbwork to actually generate matches I find highly compelling. I'd have to look again at my star rating database when I get off work but I don't think I've ever given and Arn singles or 2vs2 tag match 4 or more stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 You knew some people didn't have Arn, no reason why it shouldn't be me. Arn is good and clearly has a lot of talent but he so so rarely seems to actually use his cool bumping and stooging or his good (but kinda overrated) limbwork to actually generate matches I find highly compelling. I'd have to look again at my star rating database when I get off work but I don't think I've ever given and Arn singles or 2vs2 tag match 4 or more stars. The ones I'd cite automatically without even thinking would be: Arn and Ole vs. Rock n Rolls (Starrcade 86) Arn and Tully vs. Luger and Windham (Clash 1) Arn and Larry Z vs. Steamer and Dustin (Clash 17) Arn vs. Windham (TV match from 92) You don't have ANY of these even at four stars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Workrate clinging dinosaur! How did Sayama do in the last one? Sayama was in the 180 or so people I was considering. He didn't make my list, but I thought about him on the strength of his UWF stuff. If he had gone back to New Japan and then UWF2.0 with everyone else, he very likely would have made my list. That first UWF run was great. I feel like my list is boring and full of heavy hitters. There are people like Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle, and Keiji Muto who would be considered heavy hitters in some circles that didn't make my list, but they are obviously polarizing candidates for a lot of people participating in this project. Steve Austin, Rock, Dusty, Hulk Hogan & Inoki are "heavy hitters" in a sense and didn't make my list. I thought about Dusty, Hogan and Austin but they didn't make it in the end. They were some of my last cuts. I wanted to put Rock on the most because I am an unashamed Rock mark. But "The Rundown is the most underrated action movie of all time" and "Fuck yall, the people's elbow is awesome!" aren''t real criteria and he just didn't have enough matches for me to justify it. Inoki is one of my 5 least favorite wrestlers ever and wasn't someone I considered for this. My big blind spots are world of sport, golden era indy scene, modern japan, and modern lucha. So guys like Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Briscos, Chris Hero, Necro, Tanahashi, Okada, Virus, Black Terry, Negro Navarro, Steve Grey, Jim Breaks, etc etc etc. I've seen a tiny sampling of these dudes but not nearly enough to make my list. By 2026 for sure. I guess Finlay is the biggest heavy hitter that missed my list based on his reputation over the years. I never really understood what Dylan meant when he talked about the feeling he gets watching Jumbo. Then I did a deep dive on Finlay and now I totally get it. I would be happy never watching him wrestle ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 You knew some people didn't have Arn, no reason why it shouldn't be me. Arn is good and clearly has a lot of talent but he so so rarely seems to actually use his cool bumping and stooging or his good (but kinda overrated) limbwork to actually generate matches I find highly compelling. I'd have to look again at my star rating database when I get off work but I don't think I've ever given and Arn singles or 2vs2 tag match 4 or more stars. The ones I'd cite automatically without even thinking would be: Arn and Ole vs. Rock n Rolls (Starrcade 86) Arn and Tully vs. Luger and Windham (Clash 1) Arn and Larry Z vs. Steamer and Dustin (Clash 17) Arn vs. Windham (TV match from 92) You don't have ANY of these even at four stars? I'm pretty sure I don't Arn and Ole vs. Rock n Rolls (Starrcade 86) not a particularly good match. Arn and Tully vs. Luger and Windham (Clash 1) really fun sprint, the best of these matches, can't remember how many stars maybe **** maybe ***3/4 i dunno. Arn and Larry Z vs. Steamer and Dustin (Clash 17) I remember I gave this ***1/2 because I had to check it a few months ago for some other thread when Matt D reacted me talking about Arn in a similar way. Arn vs. Windham (TV match from 92) I haven't seen this and I should've because I was meaning to when you put it in your 100 best matches ever I just kinda ended up forgetting about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 You knew some people didn't have Arn, no reason why it shouldn't be me. Arn is good and clearly has a lot of talent but he so so rarely seems to actually use his cool bumping and stooging or his good (but kinda overrated) limbwork to actually generate matches I find highly compelling. I'd have to look again at my star rating database when I get off work but I don't think I've ever given and Arn singles or 2vs2 tag match 4 or more stars. The ones I'd cite automatically without even thinking would be: Arn and Ole vs. Rock n Rolls (Starrcade 86) Arn and Tully vs. Luger and Windham (Clash 1) Arn and Larry Z vs. Steamer and Dustin (Clash 17) Arn vs. Windham (TV match from 92) You don't have ANY of these even at four stars? I'm pretty sure I don't Arn and Ole vs. Rock n Rolls (Starrcade 86) not a particularly good match. Arn and Tully vs. Luger and Windham (Clash 1) really fun sprint, the best of these matches, can't remember how many stars maybe **** maybe ***3/4 i dunno. Arn and Larry Z vs. Steamer and Dustin (Clash 17) I remember I gave this ***1/2 because I had to check it a few months ago for some other thread when Matt D reacted me talking about Arn in a similar way. Arn vs. Windham (TV match from 92) I haven't seen this and I should've because I was meaning to when you put it in your 100 best matches ever I just kinda ended up forgetting about it. Just watched that Arn vs Windham TV match now, it was pretty damn good, I thought Paul E. was in incredible form on the outside and the second fall/Arn's heat section was really good. I had issues with it though, Arn was too goofy for my tastes and if he's the challenger shouldn't he be more of a credible threat not the guy pulling dumb scared faces, throwing wild punches that miss by 10 feet. The finish was pretty annoying too, Austin runs in and gets Arn DQ'd why? I get that Anderson was in trouble but it's just throwing away the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 The more the rest of you reveal, the more convinced I am that my list is the best list I don't think it is. The more they reveal, the more likely I am to just use my list as canon when arguing about guys in the future. So, when Dylan says "blah blah blah", I can go... "Well, Lawler ranked #1 on the GWE poll." Can't argue with consensus!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 I am reasonably confident and have been for some time that Flair will finish #1 when all is said and done. If Bryan finishes #1, I won't pretend that it wouldn't disappoint me tremendously, it would. Not really in terms of the relative merits of each guy, but more in terms of what it says about the overall community right now. I am an old-school fan and I've loved PWO primarily because it is the best place anywhere to discuss old-school wrestling in-depth. If Bryan finishes #1 over Flair, it's just a strong indication that the community is changing and moving away from that old-school focus. That's the thing I care about. I've never been any different. Cut me and I bleed old-school. There aren't 150 people who post about old-school wrestling on PWO. This thing obviously got bigger through Twitter and the podcast networks. It wouldn't surprise me if the final results are now less PWO-oriented than if only the forum regulars had voted. The wider pull of voters is similar to what happened in 2006 when people were invited from outside Smarkschoice to participate and a better snapshot of 2016 vs. 2006 than a smaller turnout would of been. But yes, Flair is in danger of not finishing #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuryWindham Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 Andre and MS-1 were glaring omissions for me. I look at a both and obviously has great matches and in Andre's case a rare overall worker, that was special. I could probably justify both but it honestly boils down to time. I dropped the ball on spending time revisiting these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 7, 2016 Report Share Posted April 7, 2016 I am reasonably confident and have been for some time that Flair will finish #1 when all is said and done. If Bryan finishes #1, I won't pretend that it wouldn't disappoint me tremendously, it would. Not really in terms of the relative merits of each guy, but more in terms of what it says about the overall community right now. I am an old-school fan and I've loved PWO primarily because it is the best place anywhere to discuss old-school wrestling in-depth. If Bryan finishes #1 over Flair, it's just a strong indication that the community is changing and moving away from that old-school focus. That's the thing I care about. I've never been any different. Cut me and I bleed old-school. There aren't 150 people who post about old-school wrestling on PWO. This thing obviously got bigger through Twitter and the podcast networks. It wouldn't surprise me if the final results are now less PWO-oriented than if only the forum regulars had voted. The wider pull of voters is similar to what happened in 2006 when people were invited from outside Smarkschoice to participate and a better snapshot of 2016 vs. 2006 than a smaller turnout would of been. But yes, Flair is in danger of not finishing #1. Yes, I also wonder if someone like Kurt Angle, the most definitively "un-PWO" choice may end up ranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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